What I am saying GFRANC is very simple. It is out of Africa that the slaves were sold into slavery. Sub-Sahara Africa is the ancestral home of the African American. We then were sold in the Carrabean where many stayed over 100 years (and took their African practices with them) before slaves came to the Americas. In Africa My ancestors practiced their traditions for centuries before they left the continent. Specifically my ancestry is out of Benin, West Africa. As I wanted to practice Vodun as my ancestors did I simply went to the place where my ancestors practiced their religion to learn and was caught by the Voduns. It is as simple as that? Traditional African religion pre-dates organized religion. Why would I go anywhere else to initiate into the religion of my ancestors when they lived in Benin? I simply do not understand your reasoning here. I have many friends; however, because their ancestry is out of Nigeria they have initiated into the Orisha.
If others do not want to go back to Africa to understand their African heritage that is on them. It has nothing to do with me. I am certainly not trying to convert anyone. I simply came on this forum to discuss Vodun. I have not attempted, by any means, to put my spin on anything. Simply, as a scholar and Vodunon to see how the religion evolved AFTER it left Africa.
I do not understand why you are attempting to porport me to be doing something that I am not.
As for Mama Lola, I met her in 1998. There was a wonderful exhibition on Haitian Vodun at one of the museums that she was a part of. In discussing Haitian Vodun the exhibition began with its roots out of Africa. It came with the slaves; so, one cannot help but discuss it. I introduced myself and explained my travels to Benin, etc. etc. She told me how she visited Benin and was blessed by Dagbo Hounon Houna (the Supreme Chef du Vodun) who was on the throne at that time and was blessed by him. She, as well as, other Mambos, Priest/Priestess come from all over the Diaspora to do ceremonies and be taught the secret ceremonies. These are simply the facts! I simply do not understand why you do not appear to acknowledge Africa's role in Haitian Vodun, Santaria etc. etc. Africa is where it all came from. But, if a person does not want to look to Africa for their experience that is their CHOICE! But why would it be an insult for someone to go to Africa and learn about Vodun, or Orisha, or anything else when that is where its origins are? Many of the practices were lost during the slave trade. As for ME I rather go back to the original power source...my ancestors...and that's what I did. People have choice.....
If someday I choose to learn more about Haitian Vodun I will go there; but, again, my choice (or my Vodun's choice) was for me to initiate in my ancestor's villages. The familial Vodun secrets are thus being able to be passed down to me because of it.
You are most welcome to your opinions....
Before we end this....I think you misunderstood my statements.
Your demonstrating a defensive position here and its not warranted here.....let me reiterate my statements again to make things clear.
I'm not trying to eliminate ANYTHING from Africa at all......dear god no. However, you have stated that you went to Benin because of your ancestral lineage and is curious to see how the true Benin practice changed in the African Diaspora. My position on this is that what is practice in the African Diaspora in the Western Hemisphere ---the practice done by ancestral slaves---cannot be suddenly understood by going to modern Africa to obtain the truth of the practice and then apply it to what we see practiced here.
Going to Africa and practice what Africans currently practice...that's not the issue....its when you already practice something here (as in Root work, Haitian Vodou, Santeria, Obeah, etc) but then decided to go to Africa because you think they know more about what you practice when they don't.
Africa is where it all came from.......but Modern Africa is not where it came from.
On another matter, Haitian Vodou was widely practiced in colonial times but not in terms of full public ceremonies.....but with ceremonial dances, in which dances were linked with communication with other ethnic groups. Early writings of St. Dominigue discuss such phenomenons in which the French let many slaves practice dancing and drumming.......Also, the healing effectiveness of many Kaperlatas (Marie Kingue for example) were recognized, which they cured many poorer whites in the cities.....and caused a backlash from official hospitals in the colony.
Everything however changed once Makandal came to the picture and everything was shut down and outlawed.
In terms of Christianity not allowing slaves to practice their traditions.....not completely correct. The North of Haiti was HEAVILY Christianized ruthlessly by Jesuits missionaries while the South of Haiti was left alone.....thus, you have a regional development and division on the extent on which things where barred.
However, the Jesuits themselves were banished because they were giving slaves a medium to gather together and collaborate with each other, which scared the hell out of the rural white planters......
i have heard of that...and i have also heard people from the south do more of the "black magic voodoo" in haiti....mwen te kon chita anba bouche gran moun trop!
I'm sorry Mambo Racine, I beg to differ with you on this one, in reference to what was happening in the colonial period. The rebellions, poisonings etc. are correct though; and, I don't blame them. But, while doing my doctoral research, most anthropologist I interviewed and read agreed that Africans were simply not able to practice their traditional ceremonies freely, in Haiti, during the colonial period. The colonialist did everything they could to turn the Africans AWAY from Vodun. So, this is how Africans were able to practice their ceremonies.... hidden under the emblems of the saints. I am sure things have evolved as the two religions have synthesized. However, today, absolutely, no one can mistake a Haitian Vodou ceremony for that of Catholicism....you are 100% correct! However, if this is your understanding of it.....FINE! I will defer to you because you are a practicing Mambo and have a better grasp of the issue. I do agree, wholeheartedly though, that Vodun has sophistication:) Especially, it seems, in Haitian Vodou. However, as I've mentioned in previous posts...in the way we practice it in Africa...it is more a "Spiritual System" than a religion. One is born into one's priesthood making it familial in nature. Spiritual systems pre-date organized religions and can be seen in many other indigenous cultures (Hindu, Native Americans etc.). African Vodun, being very ancient, is one of those. One's family Voduns are inherited. Yet, it appears that, in Haiti, it has evolved into a full fledged religion where ANYONE can initiate into it. Am I correct? If it is...then that is a DISTINCT difference from African Vodun.
WedoSi
Now I already know that Mambo Racine is an exception since she has already spoken out about Vodou being a religion for her on many occasions, I'd like to point out that many, if not most Haitians actually do see it as a practice. I remember it's been a few of the discussions around here in the past, whether to call it a religion or a practice. As it is today, some forms of practice within the grand umbrella of Haitian Vodou are regional; others' way of following it may differ from another group of people; there certain loas who have a certain following in one region, and not known in another. Within the practice itself, many follow their elders' way of practicing it in their communities. And many people inherit family loas served just through their lineage.
Now I already know that Mambo Racine is an exception since she has already spoken out about Vodou being a religion for her on many occasions, I'd like to point out that many, if not most Haitians actually do see it as a practice. I remember it's been a few of the discussions around here in the past, whether to call it a religion or a practice. As it is today, some forms of practice within the grand umbrella of Haitian Vodou are regional; others' way of following it may differ from another group of people; there certain loas who have a certain following in one region, and not known in another. Within the practice itself, many follow their elders' way of practicing it in their communities. And many people inherit family loas served just through their lineage.
Africa is where it all came from.......but Modern Africa is not where it came from.
African Vodun HAS NOT CHANGED.... The spirits are served the same as they were in pre-colonial times and during the slave era. It is because the spirits are the same. They require the same ceremonies, dances, foods etc. etc. The rituals to one's familial Voduns are passed down from generation to generation in order for a continuation in practice. My point is that I went to Africa to sit down on my inherited seats. I sit on 4 thrones in Africa...two are ancestral, one from the Diaspora; and, my Vodun seat. These spirits create and destroy life ....African Vodun simply has not changed. This, I feel is the single most thing you simply do not understand about African Vodun. You seem to THINK that it has somehow evolved. IT HAS NOT!!!!! What things You are referring to I simply do not know. My interest in the Vodou, in the Diaspora, is because of the position I hold in African Vodun; and, my interest as a scholar. I have no intention of practicing Vodou as it is practiced in Haiti. I was not born to any seats there. I am simply trying to learn what has happened to Vodun SINCE it left Africa....that is all.....will you please let it go now?????
If you have trouble understanding my purpose or who I am in Vodun...just go to FA. The spirits know everything...ask them. Otherwise, I would sincerely appreciate a little peace on the subject. Let's just agree to disagree to whatever it is you have a problem with.
WedoSi
P.S. If you check any travel guides anywhere...everyone is cognisant of the fact that Benin, West Africa is anything but modern. It is because of Vodun that it has the reputation of being one of the most traditional countries in Africa.
Now I already know that Mambo Racine is an exception since she has already spoken out about Vodou being a religion for her on many occasions, I'd like to point out that many, if not most Haitians actually do see it as a practice. I remember it's been a few of the discussions around here in the past, whether to call it a religion or a practice. As it is today, some forms of practice within the grand umbrella of Haitian Vodou are regional; others' way of following it may differ from another group of people; there certain loas who have a certain following in one region, and not known in another. Within the practice itself, many follow their elders' way of practicing it in their communities. And many people inherit family loas served just through their lineage.[/color]
This is great to know; so, in otherwords, some view Vodou as religion while others inherit their familial loas. I think it would be exptremely interesting to visits temples of those who inherit their loas:)
Now I already know that Mambo Racine is an exception since she has already spoken out about Vodou being a religion for her on many occasions, I'd like to point out that many, if not most Haitians actually do see it as a practice. .
This is an arbitrary dichotomy. If someone sees Vodou as "a practice"... a "practice" of what? Of a RELIGION, a spiritual system of beliefs and activities that relate the person to the spiritual world.
This is what happens, some old ethnologue makes some pronouncement, and everyone repeats it, "Vodou is not a religion, Vodou is a way of life." Well, the same could be said of Christianity here in the USA - our laws, our worldview, our sense of fairness and of right and wrong, our folkloric festivals like Halloween and Christmas, all of these are part of a Christian influenced "way of life", but Christianity is still a religion.
..Sorry...its the only pic I can find......
