This is an arbitrary dichotomy. If someone sees Vodou as "a practice"... a "practice" of what? Of a RELIGION, a spiritual system of beliefs and activities that relate the person to the spiritual world.
This is what happens, some old ethnologue makes some pronouncement, and everyone repeats it, "Vodou is not a religion, Vodou is a way of life." Well, the same could be said of Christianity here in the USA - our laws, our worldview, our sense of fairness and of right and wrong, our folkloric festivals like Halloween and Christmas, all of these are part of a Christian influenced "way of life", but Christianity is still a religion.[/size][/color]
I think it depends on how one sees the practice of Vodou. If one is not an initiate, they may see it as "religion" because that is what they may compare it to. If one has initiated and "bought" their Vodou they may indeed see it as a way of life or religion based on a set of belief's etc. However, as an African Vodunon or any Mambo/Hougan inheriting familial voduns it is more....the spirits themselves DICTATE (through divination or direct contact) every aspect of one's life. Therefore, one sees it as affecting all aspects of one's life based, not on what some ethnologue says, but on what is actually happening in one's life on a DAILY basis.
It is the Vodun who made me stay in Africa and lay in initiation chambers and forests for over 8 years barely ever seeing the light of day...
the VODUNS who chose my mate....
the VODUNS who sent me back to the United States for a particular mission...
the VODUNS who told me where to live, what house to chose when I went looking...
the VODUNS insisting I stay when I want to leave...
the VODUNS that has guided me for everything I have done since my initiation into them....
I have done NOTHING, of major consequence, without their authority.....
To them, I no longer belong to self. If I misuse money or do something that they are not happy with I am punished etc. etc.
In the case of persons such as this, whether they are in Africa or the Disaspora, Vodoun/Vodou becomes an ALL CONSUMING PART OF ONE'S LIFE. No one has to theorize on it because one is actually living it.
I consider it a SPIRITUAL SYSTEM because of my experience with the Spirits themselves. A researcher or anthropologist who does not "Practice" is basically on the outside looking in.
When I went to Africa, I too, hoped to just be one of them; however, I chose a research methodology...The Participant Observer...that allowed the familial Vodun to capture* me.
* We use the term capture in Vodun because many persons do not start off to actually serve....
It is the Vodun, themselves, that lead them to it...in essense capturing them
In African Vodun, once an initiate becomes a priest/priestess their head must be forever covered in public. Most Africans who meet me, in passing, automatically identify me as a priestess because my head is always covered in public...generally in white. I must also wear my ancestral bracelets daily and my left ankle beads denoting that I am a MamiSi.
I have seen pictures of Haitian Vodou ceremonies, and attended one, and notice that the Mambo's head was covered, as well as, the vodou participants. In Haitian Vodou, is it also required that a Mambo/Hougan forever cover their heads in public?
In addition, what is the normal time span that a person stays in initiation? Is divination done first in order to find out the person's head? Does divination also dictate the amount of time that the person is to stay in initiation as in African Vodun? How does one determine if this person is supposed to be a Mambo/Hougan? I recall Mama Lola saying in her book that she stayed 2 weeks in initiation.
1. A set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature and purpose of the universe especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances and often having a moral code for the conduct of human affairs.
2. A specific and institutionalized set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects.
3. The body of persons or institutions adhering to a set of religious beliefs and practices.
4. The practice of religious beliefs.
5. Ritual observance of faiths.
Where is the confusion???????? why is Vaudou not a religion?????
The saying is "Vaudou is more than a religion, it is a way of life"....NOT "Vaudou is not a religion, it is a way of life."
In African Vodun, once an initiate becomes a priest/priestess their head must be forever covered in public. Most Africans who meet me, in passing, automatically identify me as a priestess because my head is always covered in public...generally in white. I must also wear my ancestral bracelets daily and my left ankle beads denoting that I am a MamiSi.
I have seen pictures of Haitian Vodou ceremonies, and attended one, and notice that the Mambo's head was covered, as well as, the vodou participants. In Haitian Vodou, is it also required that a Mambo/Hougan forever cover their heads in public?
No. We cover our heads with satin mouchoirs in the colors of the lwa, to attract the lwa or sometimes to denote intiatory rank. But if I want to go downtown in civilian clothes, I don't have to cover my head. It's the same for male initiates, they tie their heads for ceremonies and then when they are in civilian clothes they wear what they want.
ayidowedohounon - 21 December 2008 02:20 PM
In addition, what is the normal time span that a person stays in initiation?
The kanzo cycle takes a minimum of two weeks, with about half of that spent in seclusion.
ayidowedohounon - 21 December 2008 02:20 PM
Is divination done first in order to find out the person's head?
Yes. Unless the person already knows their patron lwa, that is, and most Haitians do.
ayidowedohounon - 21 December 2008 02:20 PM
Does divination also dictate the amount of time that the person is to stay in initiation as in African Vodun?
No. The kanzo takes the same amount of time regardless of your lwa met tet or your initiatory rank.
ayidowedohounon - 21 December 2008 02:20 PM
How does one determine if this person is supposed to be a Mambo/Hougan?
A reading might show that, or a lwa might possess the person and demand that the person kanzo. Or the person might decide they want to become a hounsi, or a Mambo, and they do that. You have some discretion in choosing your initiatory grade, what you can not choose is your lwa met tet, the lwa who is the owner of your head.
1. A set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature and purpose of the universe especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances and often having a moral code for the conduct of human affairs.
2. A specific and institutionalized set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects.
3. The body of persons or institutions adhering to a set of religious beliefs and practices.
4. The practice of religious beliefs.
5. Ritual observance of faiths.
Where is the confusion???????? why is Vaudou not a religion?????
The saying is "Vaudou is more than a religion, it is a way of life"....NOT "Vaudou is not a religion, it is a way of life."
Simple... African Vodun IS NOT a specific institutionalized set of beliefs etc. etc.. It is the Spirits themelves that guide us. They tell us what THEY want. It is about serving them; and, each Spirit is different with different requirements. Even in the same pantheon of Vodun there are different requirements because each person is different. My Wedo would require different ceremonies and rituals compared to someone else's Wedo; because, my Wedo has his own personally within the family of the Wedos. And, it is only through divination that I would find this out. In essence not every Wedo is the same. There IS NO set standard to go by. The Hounon would have to consult Fa as to understand how to initiate me. The initiation process, in Africa, is different for EVERY initiate EVEN if they carry the same spirit. African Vodun is EXTREMELY different. It is everything that I have mentioned above....because I am a PRACTICING devotee of the spirits I am aware of this. Anyone on the outside looking in will see things differently.
HOWEVER, you are most welcome to say and believe what you want because if I say "white" you will certainly say "black". Anything I say you will challenge because I've said it. You are looking for argument; and, I am simply not interested! I am ONLY interested in conversing with people who respect me as a person, my place in Vodun, and to share my expertise with those who are interested. So, whatever You want to be it will be....
You have some discretion in choosing your initiatory grade, what you can not choose is your lwa met tet, the lwa who is the owner of your head. [/size][/color]
Thank you for your answers.
Is it possible, in Haitian Vodou, to have more than one lwa met tet as in African Vodun?
No. Only one lwa owns a person's head, a person can not have two masters.
But a person can serve as many lwa as they please, at all initiatory levels. Most Haitian Vodouisants are not initiates, although most would like to be.
1. A set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature and purpose of the universe especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances and often having a moral code for the conduct of human affairs.
2. A specific and institutionalized set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects.
3. The body of persons or institutions adhering to a set of religious beliefs and practices.
4. The practice of religious beliefs.
5. Ritual observance of faiths.
Where is the confusion???????? why is Vaudou not a religion?????
The saying is "Vaudou is more than a religion, it is a way of life"....NOT "Vaudou is not a religion, it is a way of life."
HOWEVER, you are most welcome to say and believe what you want because if I say "white" you will certainly say "black". Anything I say you will challenge because I've said it. You are looking for argument; and, I am simply not interested! I am ONLY interested in conversing with people who respect me as a person, my place in Vodun, and to share my expertise with those who are interested. So, whatever You want to be it will be....Have a nice day!
WedoSi
1. Actually that post was not directed at you...it was a question about Haitian Vaudou....and since you are ignorant about things haitian I really did not expect you to reply.
2. I could not care less about what africans think about their practices or whatever they want to call it.
3. I listed some definitions of religion...and Haitian Vaudou practices while varied meet definitions 1, 3, 4, & 5.....if whatever you practice does not meet any of them well that's life....not all people and societies and races are capable of religious thoughts.
4. You really give yourself way too much importance to think that I would be looking for an argument with you....argue about what? witchcraft? black magic? nonsense? .......so try your passive/aggressive posturing on someone else.
5. If you insist on replying, save me the mumbo jumbo nonsense about spirits and divination...and your place in the practice of this or that..(this is NOT about YOU)..........and stick to what is being asked.
For all intents and purposes, a religion is any belief sysyem based on the spiritual or supernatural.
religions can be organized and not organized.......advanced or primitive....structured or NOT......recognized or NOT.
Check the CIA FactBook or any other fact sheets on Haiti and Benin and under the Religion section you will find Vaudou/Vodoun along with other religions.
And it is now recognized as such by the Haitian state.
If you don't see Haitian Vaudou as a religion...no biggie.. I agree with those who see it as a religion..
[ Edited: 22 December 2008 08:07 PM by Jesus Christ ]
Well from what I've seen and been told......Haitian Vodou functions on a different sphere than what many might perceive as a religion.
In reality, Haitian Vodou does not concern itself with the cause of the universe, the creation of man, the purpose of the universe, or any universal ideas that one might find in a religious settings. Haitian Vodou do not have a dogma to seek any universal understandings, there is no ethnic code to follow (though those who practice the Guinen traditions, which is the majority, conduct themselves in a rigid fashion in terms of behavior), Death is celebrated but is not looked as a salvation nor do anyone try to understand death overall, nor is there a instiutionalized faith to hold people to it.
WHAT????
Who told you THAT????
Look, there is a lot of crap that's been written by these old "ethnologues", and one says it and another repeats it and lo and behold it becomes accepted as true, when it isn't.
Gfranc - 22 December 2008 06:35 PM
Hougans and Mambos concern themsleves with universal properties based on what they experience, individually, in the Djèvo....which they need to learn to aid others (Astrology, Botany, Psychology, Therapy, etc)......though lately money have become the driving force and the enormous amount of Hougans and Mambos is too much that the title is losing stature that it once had and some advices are losing credibilites.
WHO SAYS???
First of all, Houngans and Mambos have always been paid for services and have always wanted to earn as much money as possible, so as to take care of our communties and our people as well as possible. Money is evidence of the favor of Guinea.
Gfranc - 22 December 2008 06:35 PM
there are 401 different ceremonies for 401 lwas
Where are you getting this stuff? No one could ever count up all the lwa.
Gfranc - 22 December 2008 06:35 PM
in this format the belief system is not of any universal principles in relating to God, trying to connect wih God, worshipping God, trying to be one with God, trying to understand the natural forces, explaining good vs. evil, trying to connect with evil, worshipping evil, etc.
UNTRUE
Gfranc - 22 December 2008 06:35 PM
The sacred songs and chants (if one listen to them in detail) HEAVILY deals with the theme of losing something or being lost and is mostly in first person.
-Where are the Lwas
-Why have the lwas abandonned me
-The House burned down
-I'm calling God for help
-Where is God
-I'm in misery
-You don't where I am
-I don't know what to do
-I'm leaving
That is a FORMALIZED ADDRESS, just like a Lakota Sioux invoking, "Grandfathers, pity me!" I can't believe you don't get that.
Gfranc - 22 December 2008 06:35 PM
In this respect,....you first have to know who YOU are,
In this respect, it's good to know before you speak.
