Jesus Christ - 05 July 2009 10:13 AM

poca - 05 July 2009 07:38 AM

I ma not MJ expert, but I would like to say this regarding the fact that his kids do
not look mixed. Well there is a family that I know for quite some years (1993).
my friend Suzie, her mother Julie and her grandmother Mary. Mary is Haitian
and Had Julie with an Haitian dude. Later one she remarried a french canadian dude.
Julie, Suzie and Marie all lived with the French Canadian dude and another french canadian
girl named Sophie. Sophie was the French canadian's dude's daughter. Like her father
she is vety fair skinned, grey eyes, straight black hair, freckles and behave and talk just
like ordinary French Canadian.

Let folks, only recently (Thursday) that I learned that Sophie's mother is not French Canadian
but Mary, the same haitian lady above. Sophie just look straight white, there is nothing that
could tell that she is hald black. Mind you Mary is not a lightskin or anything like that.

Poca; we are not speculating.

ALL THREE MJ KIDS ARE WHITES...the products of white sperm and white eggs.

it's not yet confirmed. The third one may be his biological...so I've read. I haven't seen a good picture of him. I knew a little girl in Haiti whose father was French and mother Black who could pass for fully white; she had blonde hair and hazel eyes. Garcelle's kids could pass for fully white.

I'm with JC on this. The kids don't even have a slight curl to their hair. Color aside, if they were MJ's kids, they'd have some type of kink, curl or coil to their hair. They don't. And from what I've seen of MJ's pics and his family's its not like they have "good hair"--unless we consider Jermaine's texturizer, and Janet's weave as part of that ridiculous category. I know color comes back (I have an aunt who married a Haitian of Egyptian descent and every other child came out dark--P.Diddyish--and light--Alica Keys) but hair is pretty constant. If you are of African descent with minimal mixtage, you and your kids should have some curl to your hair--case in point Garcelle Beavais's phenotyically white child with his mass of curls.

Me, I doubt the first two are his biologically. The last one...I'm holding my reservation. He wasn't conceived like the other ones; even his mother we don't know.

This is him reportedly.



Nat, I've seen Janet's hair as a kid. It's not totally nappy, but a little curly. The Jacksons like most African-Americans definitely have some admixture to them.

HQueen - 06 July 2009 11:12 AM

Me, I doubt the first two are his biologically. The last one...I'm holding my reservation. He wasn't conceived like the other ones; even his mother we don't know.

This is him reportedly.



Nat, I've seen Janet's hair as a kid. It's not totally nappy, but a little curly. The Jacksons like most African-Americans definitely have some admixture to them.

I feel you but a little wave maybe... something? I can buy that maybe their hair has been straightened, flat ironed, relaxed what have you... MJ did dye the eldest's hair blond... but ... I don't know. It just seems suspicious that his children match, perfectly, his (unwanted?--"vitiligo") metamorphosis into whiteness.

I've thought about JC's idea of a syndrome, disease yet to be named that afflicts MJ and others, namely those that suffer in silence, unable to go to the extent (plastic surgery and the like) to change in the manner that MJ did ... and one name kept coming in my mind---"Uncle Ruckus."

Uncle Ruckus, from Boondocks fame, is the archetype of this psychological disorder. A man so filled with love of all things white that he recognizes his own blackness as a disease and vehemently hates all things black (see clip below).

Now, I wouldn't go so far to say that MJ, and those like him who silently suffer, hate all things black but I do think that a little "Uncle Ruckus" lives in them, urging them to move as far away from blackness as possible be it in appearance or progeny (say MJ's kids are his biologically, he does have the financial means to ensure how they would look through biological/genetic screening and testing; he could have possibly created, through a science other than surrogacy, his ideal children.) Maybe we ought to name this disorder, "Uncle Ruckus syndrome"-- "URS"? Just a thought

Jesus Christ - 04 July 2009 01:30 PM

Zodd - 04 July 2009 01:01 PM

I see no racial determination to appear white, JC. Just the top 3 stars (MJ, Janet, Latoya) that changes their appearance for whatever reasons.

Read my post again Zodd; I said to "lessen their blackness"

1. All the female children had the nose narrowing......

2. Most of the male children (only one is still in doubt) had some nose narrowing.....

3. all those who bred ended up with mixed children

4. MJ and Latoya went to the extreme......beyond mulatto

5. As Mambo Racine pointed out....Michael created totally white children.

6. Close associate Quincy Jones stated that MJ did not like being black.

7. MJ stated in interviews that the parents use to make fun of the children with the blackest noses.

If you don't see a pattern and an issue with race...I really don't know what to tell you.

For the sake of this thread let's put the family aside and talk about MJ; Do you still not think MJ had an issue with his blackness????

I see more of an issue with the parents...

my 2.5 cents:

i think michael jackson and the rest of his family who were altered were influenced by fame. in their profession, i think, it was necessary for them to capture a white audience ergo making themselves white or as close as possible to being white. michael, on the other hand, over did it of course.

i would like to suggest toni morrison's "the bluest eye." i've read and taught this book at least 8 different times. this novel gives you an idea of the impact of racism on african-americans and their concept of beauty. i believe that like MJ, the protagonist's need for acceptance, love, and the lack of self esteem associated with the aforementioned caused her to go to the extreme.

a few months ago, someone posted a video about Jamaican women lightening up their skins.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQgSB2E9S_o

watch it over and listen to what they have to say. and so i don't think MJ had a disease or condition per say. i think that his situation is more of a social/racial issue.

If one were to say that Michael Jackson, and his obsession with becoming WHITE was pathological, one would probably be correct! But, what disease (as initially asked) would it be? The problem is that MJ, for all we know, never sought psychological help. And, even if one would try to analyse him from afar, as I did in the mid 90s, we are not sure where he fits in with those noted diagnosis. My contention has always been that conventional Psychology does not fit African Americans. MJ's issues seemed to encompass the social and the mental. Psychoanalytical treatment might have worked for MJ.

In the field of Psychoanalysis/Psychiatry/Psychology we have a diagnostic manual called the DSM IV (Diagnostic and Statistical Manuel of Mental Disorders) that we use in making our diagnosis. You may find it online:

http://www.psychiatryonline.com/resourceTOC.aspx?resourceID=1

Michael could be under anyone of these are none...

302.85 Gender Identity Disorder in Adolescents or Adults
302.29 Pedophilia
300.29 Specific Phobia
300.14 Diassociative Identity Disorder
301.81 Narcissistic Personality Disorder

Who knows how he could have been diagnosed. But, here is a place to start for those who might have interest. I am sure that when this is all finished..a new diagnosis will appear in the DSM IV because of MJ.

Wedosi

i was watching a video that was talking about how he would sleep w/all his brothers in one bed on the road....that's how he would sleep for a good portion of his childhood...i think he would have young teenage boys specifically for that...sleeping..when they told him not to do that b/c of the implications he didn't like it b/c he doesn't like to be told no. and he couldn't fathom what was wrong w/him sleeping w/a bunch of teenage boys.

fantasma - 06 July 2009 02:33 PM

i was watching a video that was talking about how he would sleep w/all his brothers in one bed on the road....that's how he would sleep for a good portion of his childhood...i think he would have young teenage boys specifically for that...sleeping..when they told him not to do that b/c of the implications he didn't like it b/c he doesn't like to be told no. and he couldn't fathom what was wrong w/him sleeping w/a bunch of teenage boys.

that makes sense.