I was watching c-span before my workout and Gates was presenting and he made a comment that was interesting to me. Would love to get your perspective on the comment. He stated that he was a product of affirmative action....there were 6 blacks in Yale the year before and 96 the year after with steady increases. He said in this day and age affirmative action should not be based on race but rather class. He gave the example of his two daughters having gone to the best private and secondary schools throughout the country and by virtue of their class having any Ivy League school at their feet. Therefore that has eliminated the need for racial affirmative action in their case. But he gave the example of poor students of any color being held down by economic boundaries. He said the need for action has switched from a racial basis to one of evening the playing field along economic class structures. He of course lol stated this more succinctly then i just have but you can grasp the idea. Any thoughts.....
Oh sure.....he got his...now he wants to pull up the ladder.
There should NOT be any affirmatice action based on race, class, gender, and other similar attributes.
MERIT should be the only qualifier.
that need for diversity in everything is just hogwash........there is no merit to it.
What we should always have are safeguards to prevent discrimination based on anything but MERIT.......with that in place...it does not matter if no blacks or hispanics can make it into MIT....or if Asians end up making 60%....so be it.
Affirmative Action (AA) is the worst thing that could happened to minorities .One of my BFF ( she is from Mauritius) from High School got into MIT and some Ivies. Her application essays for Brown was so great that when Brown sent her, her admission letter, the dean of admission quote some sentences from her essays. They did not send her the cliche Dear John Doe admission letter. Another classmates who was from Gambia got into MIT. A Nepalese chick at our school said that my friend and her African counterpart got into MIT and the other Ivies because they were African and Black.
One thing that the Nepalese Chick did not knew was that two years before she applied to MIT, my Mauritian classmate got into École Polytechnique (One of the greatest Engineering school in Europe, 34th in the world ranking and 2nd in France). I am saying that because France does not really have affirmative action, my friend applied directly from Mauritius. This means that if she had gotten into "L' École Polytechnique"she only did because of her grades and because she is a well rounded student.
The other proof that shows how AA did not work for her was that MIT did not give her a cents. So if MIT felt sorry for her and accepted mostly because she is black, she is from Africa, logically ,they would have enough pity to give her substantial financial aid when they accepted her.
I know some people who are not in the "minority box" who scream AA whenever they got rejected by a school while a black student get in. Although Asians are in the minority box, this non-minority people are perfectly fine if an Asian beat them at the admission office because they say" he is Asian, so he studies hard, he is a typical nerd, he got into Yale because he is smart. But if it is a Black person, they would all say Affirmative Action.
That's why I think that AA is destroying the reputation of Black scholars. They don't respect that they deserve for their hard work because almost everyone think that they got a promotion because they are black, they got into a good school because they are black. Wedo said once that AA gives her some academic opportunities that were beyond her mean (maybe financially) but I think It's sad to live in a society where people don't acknowledge your potential and your talent.
On a funny side note: I have a native Indian friend who hate AA. He is a smart kid but he decided to apply to Princeton and Yale , just to see how AA would played in his favor. He purposely omitted a lot of his extra curricular achievement in his application ( He compete in car races, he has done some great tech-wise stuff). He got in but he decided to Arizona state because he did not want to be exhibited as one of the "special native American" who bring diversity to these Ivies.
I was watching c-span before my workout and Gates was presenting and he made a comment that was interesting to me. Would love to get your perspective on the comment. He stated that he was a product of affirmative action....there were 6 blacks in Yale the year before and 96 the year after with steady increases. He said in this day and age affirmative action should not be based on race but rather class. He gave the example of his two daughters having gone to the best private and secondary schools throughout the country and by virtue of their class having any Ivy League school at their feet. Therefore that has eliminated the need for racial affirmative action in their case. But he gave the example of poor students of any color being held down by economic boundaries. He said the need for action has switched from a racial basis to one of evening the playing field along economic class structures. He of course lol stated this more succinctly then i just have but you can grasp the idea. Any thoughts.....
Most of us, of that generation, benefited from Affirmative Action. We were not allowed in many Universities because of our race. Due to AA we were able to educate ourselves. I have often spoken of MY being a product of Affirmative Action on this forum. My cousin, as a black man, was not allowed in many of the white medical schools he applied to even though he was an honor student. Affirmative Action helped to equal out the playing field. As a result, my cousin became an excellent surgeon and one of the Who's Who of African American men. Yet, he NEVER forgot his roots and humbly served the African American community as hard as his other clients...often with no pay! Gates has become too removed from his roots for my taste!
In that case JC, what kind of safeguards would be put in place to make sure that those individuals(whatever their race) be properly represented. What i mean by that is not so much diversity but rather keeping a specific group who may be in power from overhelmingly taking those opportunities? It is inherent in human nature..to me at least ..that we tend to serve those who closest resemble us either by race, class, etc. Do you agree with me in that certain people regardless of merit have an easier path possibly in being able to not only obain but to demonstrate that merit? For example me personally... when i was younger i was really poor and the schools that i went to did not push me in the least bit. After my mom remarried, my stepfather made 4 times the amount that we were used to having which changed our life style which in turn changed the opportunities given to me. I was able to go to the type of schools that would push me academiccly, surrounded with like minded peers and so on? I know i have rambled some but would like to pick your brain on the idea.
Affirmative Action (AA) is the worst thing that could happened to minorities .One of my BFF ( she is from Mauritius) from High School got into MIT and some Ivies. Her application essays for Brown was so great that when Brown sent her, her admission letter, the dean of admission quote some sentences from her essays. They did not send her the cliche Dear John Doe admission letter. Another classmates who was from Gambia got into MIT. A Nepalese chick at our school said that my friend and her African counterpart got into MIT and the other Ivies because they were African and Black.
One thing that the Nepalese Chick did not knew was that two years before she applied to MIT, my Mauritian classmate got into École Polytechnique (One of the greatest Engineering school in Europe, 34th in the world ranking and 2nd in France). I am saying that because France does not really have affirmative action, my friend applied directly from Mauritius. This means that if she had gotten into "L' École Polytechnique"she only did because of her grades and because she is a well rounded student.
The other proof that shows how AA did not work for her was that MIT did not give her a cents. So if MIT felt sorry for her and accepted mostly because she is black, she is from Africa, logically ,they would have enough pity to give her substantial financial aid when they accepted her.
I know some people who are not in the "minority box" who scream AA whenever they got rejected by a school while a black student get in. Although Asians are in the minority box, this non-minority people are perfectly fine if an Asian beat them at the admission office because they say" he is Asian, so he studies hard, he is a typical nerd, he got into Yale because he is smart. But if it is a Black person, they would all say Affirmative Action.
That's why I think that AA is destroying the reputation of Black scholars. They don't respect that they deserve for their hard work because almost everyone think that they got a promotion because they are black, they got into a good school because they are black. Wedo said once that AA gives her some academic opportunities that were beyond her mean (maybe financially) but I think It's sad to live in a society where people don't acknowledge your potential and your talent.
On a funny side note: I have a native Indian friend who hate AA. He is a smart kid but he decided to apply to Princeton and Yale , just to see how AA would played in his favor. He purposely omitted a lot of his extra curricular achievement in his application ( He compete in car races, he has done some great tech-wise stuff). He got in but he decided to Arizona state because he did not want to be exhibited as one of the "special native American" who bring diversity to these Ivies.
YOU all do not have a CLUE as what it was to grow up in that racist society of old. To be called NIGGER and to be denied opportunities due to one's race was difficult! But it continually happened to us! Affirmative Action was not to allow folks in schools who were lazy or had NO potential. Folks benefiting were people who were scholars; but, were denied opportunities due to race. I have 3 Masters Degrees and a Ph.D. and in EVERY ONE I graduated with honors. RACE was the ISSUE NOT ABILITY! People of MY generation put a very HIGH value on EDUCATION! Much more than it is today! WE are the ones that set the standard!
My post has nothing to do with whether or not you are called a nigger, a black, or a AA. I am not African American, I am not American, I am not entittled to Affirmative Action and it had never open any door for me but I feel sorry for hard working black people whose merit are overshadowed by their skin colors. You say that Affirmative Action has nothing to do with being black but go say that to the biter white kid who could not make it into Princeton. He will tell you that a Black student stole his admission spot. He is not going to tell you that a smart, competitive and talented African American kids was a better candidate than him. He will tell you that he got into it because the kids is simply black. Unfortunately this will follow this kid wherever he goes because once he become Manager of his brokerage firm, some" non-minority" folks at the office will say that he got the promotion because he is black.
Their jealousy will make them forget all the great thing that their African American coworker has accomplished in the firm. I am sorry for this AA person because he will never fully get the respect that he had worked to earn just because some ignorant people put them in the same box as all the minority folks. This box is " Affirmative Action"
ayidowedohounon - 25 July 2009 04:44 PM
KfeKreyól - 25 July 2009 04:25 PM
Affirmative Action (AA) is the worst thing that could happened to minorities .One of my BFF ( she is from Mauritius) from High School got into MIT and some Ivies. Her application essays for Brown was so great that when Brown sent her, her admission letter, the dean of admission quote some sentences from her essays. They did not send her the cliche Dear John Doe admission letter. Another classmates who was from Gambia got into MIT. A Nepalese chick at our school said that my friend and her African counterpart got into MIT and the other Ivies because they were African and Black.
One thing that the Nepalese Chick did not knew was that two years before she applied to MIT, my Mauritian classmate got into École Polytechnique (One of the greatest Engineering school in Europe, 34th in the world ranking and 2nd in France). I am saying that because France does not really have affirmative action, my friend applied directly from Mauritius. This means that if she had gotten into "L' École Polytechnique"she only did because of her grades and because she is a well rounded student.
The other proof that shows how AA did not work for her was that MIT did not give her a cents. So if MIT felt sorry for her and accepted mostly because she is black, she is from Africa, logically ,they would have enough pity to give her substantial financial aid when they accepted her.
I know some people who are not in the "minority box" who scream AA whenever they got rejected by a school while a black student get in. Although Asians are in the minority box, this non-minority people are perfectly fine if an Asian beat them at the admission office because they say" he is Asian, so he studies hard, he is a typical nerd, he got into Yale because he is smart. But if it is a Black person, they would all say Affirmative Action.
That's why I think that AA is destroying the reputation of Black scholars. They don't respect that they deserve for their hard work because almost everyone think that they got a promotion because they are black, they got into a good school because they are black. Wedo said once that AA gives her some academic opportunities that were beyond her mean (maybe financially) but I think It's sad to live in a society where people don't acknowledge your potential and your talent.
On a funny side note: I have a native Indian friend who hate AA. He is a smart kid but he decided to apply to Princeton and Yale , just to see how AA would played in his favor. He purposely omitted a lot of his extra curricular achievement in his application ( He compete in car races, he has done some great tech-wise stuff). He got in but he decided to Arizona state because he did not want to be exhibited as one of the "special native American" who bring diversity to these Ivies.
YOU all do not have a CLUE as what it is to grow up in the racist society of old. To be called NIGGER and to be denied opportunities due to one's race is difficult! But it continually happened to us! Affirmative Action was not to allow folks in schools who were lazy or had NO potential. Folks benefiting were people who were scholars; but, were denied opportunities due to race. I have 3 Masters Degrees and a Ph.D. and in EVERY ONE I graduated with honors. RACE was the ISSUE NOT ABILITY! People of MY generation put a very HIGH value on EDUCATION! Much more than it is today! WE are the ones that set the standard!
YOU all do not have a CLUE as what it was to grow up in that racist society of old. To be called NIGGER and to be denied opportunities due to one's race is difficult! But it continually happened to us! Affirmative Action was not to allow folks in schools who were lazy or had NO potential. Folks benefiting were people who were scholars; but, were denied opportunities due to race. I have 3 Masters Degrees and a Ph.D. and in EVERY ONE I graduated with honors. RACE was the ISSUE NOT ABILITY! People of MY generation put a very HIGH value on EDUCATION! Much more than it is today! WE are the ones that set the standard!
Wedosi
Wedosi
I have more of an understanding because of growing up here in the states and in the deep south for the majority of my life. Ga, arkansas, alabahma, texas and missippi have all been called home. Even though i am an 80's baby, even in my day i saw some of the blatant racisim that happens in this part of the country..even to this day(living in texas which even though great strides have been made is still really racist) but the question moreso is about todays generation. For instance i get angry every time i see some of my friends(which are overwhelming AA) not working hard to fufill the legacy that was laid down for them by your generation and their parents. Now a lot of factors go into that but at the same time its not an excuse. This is the best time in U.S history to be black but many do not take advantage. I can understand both viewpoints and i think one must walk in another shoes to really be able to understand their view.
AA's should have long ago worn out the AA welcome mat. I've highlighted my own experiences with AA and AA's. It's an unfair, double edged sword. AA's now walk around with a huge "chip on their shoulder" about the "white guy is out to get me". Obama, Gates, Sharpton, Jackson are prime examples of this mentality. If I fail, it's because I'm black. If I don't get into university; it's because I'm black. If a cop pulls me over; it's because I'm black, etc etc. It's a crutch that prevents the leg from ever healing. It's unfair because whites, Hispanics and Asians who can be better qualified are over-looked.
AA's are joking when they talk about racism today. Yes it is exists, but in THEIR favor. You can score lower on the SAT, ACT, GMAT, LSAT, have a lower GPA and still get in ahead of other students. Employers OPENLY advertise jobs for AA's. Employers are ALLOWED to discriminate against whites and in favor of AA's. Somebody on here stated they were born in the 1980's and have experienced "racism". They have, and it's the aforementioned.
I've lived in the EXACT same time as Wedosi and have an almost 180 degree different experience from hers. My family members and myself have been given PREFERENTIAL treatment throughout our lives in the US. PREFERENTIAL treatment. My family is educated, works hard, no chip on the shoulder (except for a few die-hards), no I'm Black and and I'm proud, in your face attitude, and is heavily inter-mixed with whites. My son has got it made once he completes his JD and works hard. The path is greased for him, and in FAVOR of him, over whites. There are "ifs" in my statement, but the blame will not fall on his being "black" should they occur.
Any AA today complaining about "racism". is a coward, and is using this crutch to cover for his/her own ineptness. As I have stated many times before, if you're black and you can earn a Bachelor's degree from a good state school with a 3.2+ GPA, you have got it MADE. Mind you, the chip on the shoulder has to come off, and the AA attitude has to disappear. You have to work really hard and probably accept geographic transfers (possibly for a white person) and you'll be chosen OVER white people for promotions.
Our future looks fantastic and will look much brighter once we get the race bait(ers) out of the way. Obama is an aged, old school, black separatist, and he will not help us other than through more government give-aways and more excuse making for us. If you want to call those benefits; and many AA's certainly do!.
Our only issue is that our constant "racism" claims are wearing very thin and could possibly lead to a backlash against us. My experience over the last 10 years, has been meeting more black racists, than whites. Keep pointing fingers, and pretty soon, somebody is going to break that finger.
Tough sentiments, but it's time. Obama and Gates are so ingrained with the "white man is out to get me" that they are "eager" to scream and shout whenever THEY think it presents itself. The only racists in this Cambridge story, is Obama, Gates and the so called black intellectuals chiming in.
This Gates and Obama are a hindrance, and not a help to our advancement on an "equal level" with whites. My son, will also hear in his life, that he got this or that because he's "Black". Thank you very much Barack Obama, and Pompous Ass Professor Gates for all of your efforts in this regard.
Whatever ever happened to "not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." Obama, Gates, Sharpton, Jackson etc threw that out a long time ago! "That only applies to white people".
In that case JC, what kind of safeguards would be put in place to make sure that those individuals(whatever their race) be properly represented. What i mean by that is not so much diversity but rather keeping a specific group who may be in power from overhelmingly taking those opportunities? It is inherent in human nature..to me at least ..that we tend to serve those who closest resemble us either by race, class, etc. Do you agree with me in that certain people regardless of merit have an easier path possibly in being able to not only obain but to demonstrate that merit? For example me personally... when i was younger i was really poor and the schools that i went to did not push me in the least bit. After my mom remarried, my stepfather made 4 times the amount that we were used to having which changed our life style which in turn changed the opportunities given to me. I was able to go to the type of schools that would push me academiccly, surrounded with like minded peers and so on? I know i have rambled some but would like to pick your brain on the idea.
Good question josiah;
These safeguards can come in many forms; a good start would be removing all indicators of race, gender, ethnicity from applications where they would not be a factor in performance....or at least removing them at the stage of minimum qualification.
Enforcement of illegal discrimination laws and severe penalties....just as we have now for money laundering and other transgressions.
We will never have a perfect world...we discriminate everyday with every interaction with others. What the state can attempt to control is the blatant denial of opportunity based on race, gender etc.
A school could say we need different students from different countries in our international relations program........a city could say for the sake of public safety, we need police officers from the different ethnic groups living in the city......a private business could recruit among a certain group in order to get access to a certain market.......they should be allowed such freedom in these cases.
It would not work for example in admission to medical school, engineering school..etc........
Basically the goal should be..THE BEST MINDS/PERFORMERS in every field...and every field will have different qualifiers.
Basically the goal should be..THE BEST MINDS/PERFORMERS in every field...
LMAO! If that is "the goal" then it is obvious that it is forever elusive including during all of the years prior to Affirmative Action and that's how we end up with an idiot like GW as POTUS and with so many dumb white people making decisions.
I will now get on my soap box and paint with a broad brush.
It never ceases to amaze me how those who have and continue to benefit from the hard work of Blacks born and bred in this country and those few enlightened immigrants of color talk out of their anus about how qualified they are while standing on the backs of civil and human rights earned through struggle. Indictment of the struggle, serves as evidence that ethnic Haitians for example must be from inferior stock when we look at their current living condition. We can therefore extrapolate that these conditions are as a result of their ignorance due to inferior DNA as evidence by living conditions the world over for those ethnic groups that are part of the "Negroid race".
My hope is that gunner and all who believe as he does rightfully refuse any real and/or perceived advantage they receive based on their "race: Negroid".
After an examination of the quality of the ideas and usage of language in gunner’s posts, if as he says he is a successful manager of a corporate concern I have to agree with him that it is truly because he is getting a “dumb Nigger” pass.
I will now get on my soap box and paint with a broad brush.
It never ceases to amaze me how those who have and continue to benefit from the hard work of Blacks born and bred in this country and those few enlightened immigrants of color talk out of their anus about how qualified they are
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Oh Papaille, you hit it on the nail. Nothing could describe better the arrogance of the minority that think that they are better than anyone else here, these few enlightened immigrants think that they can intimidate us with their "Intellectual and Smart " questions but then back down when we ask them to answers their questions/statement. The few enlightened immigrants think that the Boukies who are on the forum are so ignorant that they can't make the distinction between a question and a statement.
When I say, now please answer your own questions. I am merely telling you that the so-called questions that you asked me were your own opinions that you tried to frame in the form of questions. I am not malice but I am Boukie enough to push you back in your own trap.
Papaille, I love it when they act that way because they awake the little evil sarcastic angel that is sleeping in me.
I hope that the enlightened minds is smart enough to understand that I am just being sarcastic when I praise their knowledge on local and international issues and when I ask them to write a book about it.
