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Posted: 31 May 2012 10:15 PM   [ Ignore ]
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True, true and true
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EDUCATION is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance.
JOY is a heart full and a mind purified by gratitude.

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Posted: 01 June 2012 02:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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THE TRUTH IS NEGRO WERE KILLING WHITE FRENCH MAN, AND IT WAS NOT ACCEPTABLE TO THEM TO GET THEIR ASS WOOP BY THE SLAVES, WE LOST A LOT OF GOOD MAN, BUT GUESS WHAT ITS A LITTLE TOO LATE, IF WE HAVE TO DO IT WE WILL DO IT AGAIN.
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map plain main nous toute

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Posted: 01 June 2012 05:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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maximo - 31 May 2012 10:15 PM
True, true and true

COOL... WELL CONDENSED... THIS CAN SAVE HOURS OF TALK WHEN BRIEFING SOME FOLKS ABOUT HAITI. I'LL FIND THE WAY TO RESIDE IT AS AS VIDEO MOVIE CLIP ON MY CELL PHONE.

What I am still clearly lacking in explanation is how did we, a mixed group of enslaved people (NATIONS) that fought successfully to free ourselves from slavery, yanked land from European slavers to form a (our own) country, Haiti. And to even poised ourselves in assisting others to fight for their very own liberty, found a necessity to control a people sharing another part of our same island, which today, culminated into such a mistrustful relationship between Haitian people & the Dominican people?

If Anyone knows for sure these answers, please educate:
Does the untainted history of Haiti/ Haitians gets taught to school children in the Dominican Republic?
Does Dominican History gets taught to school children in Haiti?

Although I attended a reputably decent school in Haiti where, I still believe they offered a fair education, and although I left Haiti in my early teens, besides their basic geography, I don't recall learning about the history of the Dominican people. I knew you were expected to learn Spanish, just as Latin and certain other languages, but learning Spanish seemed mainly because it was good education to learn various languages. Never felt it was done in any attempt to foster communicating with the (next-door) Dominican neighboring country folks.
[ Edited: 01 June 2012 05:45 PM by Milktree ]
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Posted: 01 June 2012 05:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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The woman is incorrect.

The first university and cathedral in the americas were not built in Haiti.
[ Edited: 01 June 2012 06:13 PM by Jesus Christ ]
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Posted: 01 June 2012 06:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Milktree - 01 June 2012 05:43 PM


What I am still clearly lacking in explanation is how did we, a mixed group of enslaved people (NATIONS) that fought successfully to free ourselves from slavery, yanked land from European slavers to form a (our own) country, Haiti. And to even poised ourselves in assisting others to fight for their very own liberty, found a necessity to control a people sharing another part of our same island, which today, culminated into such a mistrustful relationship between Haitian people & the Dominican people?



It was the right thing to do to try to get control of the entire island.

That is what nations/people with brains do.


Instead of wasting time and resources with Bolivar.....they should have created a nation of fighters armed to the teeth....and all resources spent on land and sea armament.

Unfortunately, the people in control of haiti reverted to their african non achieving way....and allowed a much smaller group at that time to restrict them to one third of an already small island.

They even allowed a pro-french halfbreed minority to subjugate them in that little one third.

And the worthless petion and boyer set haiti down its path to failure.

So yes the negros and halfbreeds were unable to build a nation.
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Posted: 01 June 2012 08:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Jesus Christ - 01 June 2012 06:12 PM
Milktree - 01 June 2012 05:43 PM


What I am still clearly lacking in explanation is how did we, a mixed group of enslaved people (NATIONS) that fought successfully to free ourselves from slavery, yanked land from European slavers to form a (our own) country, Haiti. And to even poised ourselves in assisting others to fight for their very own liberty, found a necessity to control a people sharing another part of our same island, which today, culminated into such a mistrustful relationship between Haitian people & the Dominican people?



It was the right thing to do to try to get control of the entire island.

That is what nations/people with brains do.


Instead of wasting time and resources with Bolivar.....they should have created a nation of fighters armed to the teeth....and all resources spent on land and sea armament.

Unfortunately, the people in control of haiti reverted to their african non achieving way....and allowed a much smaller group at that time to restrict them to one third of an already small island.

They even allowed a pro-french halfbreed minority to subjugate them in that little one third.

And the worthless petion and boyer set haiti down its path to failure.

So yes the negros and halfbreeds were unable to build a nation.


Yes... you brought in a very interesting point had we concentrated our resources to be armed to the teeth, since we were already a nation of valiant fighters, we would have been feared even more.
Additionally, we simply would have to also become very crafty negotiators in order to buy arms & whatever weapons of technology necessary then, in order to continue being a feared army under the commerce isolation imposed on the country of Haiti.

In reality, what good had our investments in Bolivar done for Haiti so far? ... Until perhaps recently, having to finally hear some mea culpa & bit of acknowledgment from Chavez, openly televised, in the assembly of other Latin American leaders or politicians.

Indisputably, that made poor investment, which brought Haiti back "nada" in return...

But still, going with your suggested strategy to have placed the entire island under one control, as I see it in that time, would have helped very little to combat the isolation against Haiti, as it was set by those nations who also controlled the seas at that time.

Perhaps in their strategy to extend to Bolivar, and in the will of our ancestors to offer joining in battle along sides of anyone who'd dared fight for their own liberty & independence during those time, could have been a response to some sort of strategy to combat the isolation our young nation faced.
Had our fighting fever spread to other places and forced to cut short the control span of slavery & also consequently helped other nations to loosen the clutches of the European’s dominating controls, than I think the returns from such investment would be easier to see today.
[ Edited: 01 June 2012 08:14 PM by Milktree ]
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Posted: 01 June 2012 08:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Milktree - 01 June 2012 08:05 PM

But still, going with your suggested strategy to have placed the entire island under one control, as I see it in that time, would have helped very little to combat the isolation against Haiti, as it was set by those nations who also controlled the seas at that time.

Perhaps in their strategy to extend to Bolivar, and in the will of our ancestors to offer joining in battle along sides of anyone who'd dared fight for their own liberty & independence during those time, could have been a response to some sort of strategy to combat the isolation our young nation faced.
Had our fighting fever spread to other places and forced to cut short the control span of slavery & also consequently helped other nations to loosen the clutches of the European’s dominating controls, than I think the returns from such investment would be easier to see today.


Putting the entire island under one control is sound military and economic strategy. Even the haitian leader at the time saw it as an opportunity.

The problem was in his inability to consolidate the gains and in the haitians failure at governance.

Haiti had the population to completely submerge the eastern side's small population.

Any military order fell to the side with the death of Kristof and Desalines.

petion and boyer's laissez faire republic was incapable of anything.

As to isolation, a larger country is less easily isolated.....and even if it did not help with our isolation, the long term picture would be brighter.

I would expect the easterners to behave likewise if the table was reversed.

Only an inept or weak people would be satisfied with a small piece of territory when more area was easily obtainable.
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Posted: 01 June 2012 09:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Milktree - 01 June 2012 05:43 PM

If Anyone knows for sure these answers, please educate:
Does the untainted history of Haiti/ Haitians gets taught to school children in the Dominican Republic?
Does Dominican History gets taught to school children in Haiti?



In logical terms, Dominicans have no choice BUT to know about Haiti.......There is no Independence Day without Haiti for Dominicans. No matter how negative and bias the viewpoints are presented......Haiti will always have a place in the D.R.

In the case of Haitians learning about Dominican History.......the D.R. is a footnote, due to the drastic and romantic view of Haiti's history. Thus, Historically, the territory of what is the D.R. is mostly presented in Haiti Historical Books as footnotes for Leaders who tried to manipulate it to fight against Haiti's foreign enemies.

Toussaint - moved in the territory to secure French Allegiance

Dessalines - Moved in the territory to eliminate remnants of French Authority

Boyer - Moved in the territory to secure lands and finance the Debt payments to France

Soulouque - Moved in the territory due to fear of France recognizing the D.R. independence and France using the D.R. as a launching pad to interfere with Haiti affairs.



The regular people on the ground receive these viewpoints by their proper intellectuals through school and you have what you have today:

One group feel their are always being used up
Another group feel foreign enemies from the past are using their neighbors to destroy them.

Mesh that up with the internet and Diaspora groups and the hatred grows..... LOL
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Posted: 01 June 2012 09:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Jesus Christ - 01 June 2012 08:42 PM

Putting the entire island under one control is sound military and economic strategy. Even the haitian leader at the time saw it as an opportunity.


Very true indeed.


Jesus Christ - 01 June 2012 08:42 PM

The problem was in its inability to consolidate the gains and in the haitians failure at governance.
Haiti had the population to completely submerge the eastern side's small population.


The problem of failure of governance rose out from the sound military and economic strategy........The 2 leaders (Toussaint & Boyer) who combined the territories both illustrated that premise. President Boyer failures hit Haiti 3 times harder when the East gained its Independence..........Code Rural, Debt Negotiations, Land consumption by the few, etc......all stayed in Haiti while the East moved ahead.

Current Haiti is the legacy of Boyer's republic...........President Boyer is, In my Opinion, the most influential Haitian President......Look up the Laws and you will see it firsthand.. We yell out Papa Desalin......But our Society screams....Papa Boyé...But that's for another debate wink

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Posted: 02 June 2012 12:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Jesus Christ - 01 June 2012 05:57 PM
The woman is incorrect.

The first university and cathedral in the americas were not built in Haiti.

JC, mwen pa kon'n pou koze katedral la, men Listwa di se nan ane 1538 Inivèsite Sen Toma te fonde nan Sendomeng wi! Kisa'w k'a di nou sou sa?
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Posted: 02 June 2012 12:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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SEKON SALYE - 02 June 2012 12:31 AM
Jesus Christ - 01 June 2012 05:57 PM
The woman is incorrect.

The first university and cathedral in the americas were not built in Haiti.

JC, mwen pa kon'n pou koze katedral la, men Listwa di se nan ane 1538 Inivèsite Sen Toma te fonde nan Sendomeng wi! Kisa'w k'a di nou sou sa?


Not in Saint-Domingue (Haiti)....but in Santo-Dominguo (Dominican Republic)
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Posted: 02 June 2012 05:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Skinz - 01 June 2012 09:28 PM
Milktree - 01 June 2012 05:43 PM

If Anyone knows for sure these answers, please educate:
Does the untainted history of Haiti/ Haitians gets taught to school children in the Dominican Republic?
Does Dominican History gets taught to school children in Haiti?



In logical terms, Dominicans have no choice BUT to know about Haiti.......There is no Independence Day without Haiti for Dominicans. No matter how negative and bias the viewpoints are presented......Haiti will always have a place in the D.R.

In the case of Haitians learning about Dominican History.......the D.R. is a footnote, due to the drastic and romantic view of Haiti's history. Thus, Historically, the territory of what is the D.R. is mostly presented in Haiti Historical Books as footnotes for Leaders who tried to manipulate it to fight against Haiti's foreign enemies.



Interesting Skinz. But I find Dominicans to be much more ignorant of Haitian history and haitians in general than thee other way around. I understand your point but I'm talking on a practical level. To me its one of many cultural difference between Domincans and Haitians.
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Posted: 02 June 2012 10:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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maximo - 31 May 2012 10:15 PM
True, true and true
Nice and well condensed!! I also agree with Jesus Christ's wisdom. Lol.
[ Edited: 02 June 2012 10:20 AM by Fanm Kreyol ]
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