Dear,

Unless i misunderstood you, we were talking about bleaching cream, and i'll repeat it again, it's not only a Haitian thing, and your comment about people born in Haiti is irrelevant.    What exactly the Haitian born have to do with that?  if you want to talk about skin color, Haitian born are not the problem, it's all over, and no you can't change anybody's mind in america by talking about it. 

I don't care about what people do to themselves to be marketable as long as i don't have to do it i'm not worried about it.  I could tell someone it's not good until i turn blue, if they don't want to change their mind about it , they will not.  I don't care where you're.  You may be happy you were not born in Haiti, but you know what, the Haitian blood is running through your vein.  If one day American decided to send back Haitian  and Haitian descendant you'll be on the same soil with the rest of us.

I could go to Japan and give birth if i choose to, but my child mentality will not be the Japanase mentality.  He/she might not agree with everything i will be teaching Him, but deep down he/she will still have some haitian mentality.

Where you born doesn't make who you are.  Mostl places won't even hire you if your name sound too black, so what are you saying, can you change that fact?  can you go and tell corporate America to stop  it the person might be just the right person for the job?

You said America would not be affected, that's what you think.  

Flambert, your point is there my friend. But you seem to overlook the essence of my message. I hope you're not looking for reasons to defend. When reading your post, I'm indeed looking for reasons to change my own line of thought for the better. That's why I read it sometimes more than once if what pops out at the first lecture is what I wish not to see.

I did NOT say women bleach themselves to find love and everlasting success. Go read it again, a second lecture always does justice to reason. People don't bleach or darken themselves in order to build the INNER QUALITIES, the actual lasting value that will retain the admirer (RETENTION). You are only saying part of what I said but in a totally different context. I never said one should lean on the ATTRACTION efforts to achieve anything but mere desire to be approached, given the TASTE of the approachers. Your reply is insinuating that I made attraction the main motive for sustained respect and self-realization.

Human life is not an every-second search for knowledge or inner qualities. There're times where we must look for other things. At young ages, attention is the measure by which we define, find, develop or confirm our identity. Unless one is not fully human, that defaults to be universal. In that context, young men and women do alter their hair style, skin complexion, dress code, nose shape, etc... to be "à la mode". Some of them even drive the "mode du jour" to make sure they're not missing out.

It's all NATURAL, my friend, that they look for attention at certain time intervals because we're not a pile of brains looking desperately to fill our neurons with knowledge. There's time for that. Of course if somebody's life comes down to just that, that's destructive ignorant stupidity. By the same token, if somebody's life is reduced to just voracious quest of knowledge every nano-second of his/her existence, that's even more destructive and blinder stupidity. It doesn't matter how one got to be stupid. Stupidity remains such whether you acquired it by excess of mundane occupation or excess of knowledge quest.

There's a balance one must respect in order to achieve inner peace and personal fulfillment. The reason as well as the instinct in us need to be fed. The wise always strives for the equilibrium of the two. So it is NATURAL and SMART for the youth to look for attention at certain stage of their lives. And in doing so, they're not making themselves any less intelligent or less worthy than those burying themselves in books when they should be doing something else.

Acquiring knowledge is not ALL about being human, it's only A PART of it just like sleeping, showering, laughing, eating, sparing time, looking for attention via any means including bleaching or darkening skin epiderms.

It's not that they have the right to do anything. That's not my point. It's natural that they look for attention at young ages. I also did mention that those same people looking to attract must have a full package of inner qualities -education, money, culture, manners etc...- to RETAIN what they attract.

No one talked about the reasons why the white race is economically leading the world. That's a totally different forum. So let's leave it alone here.

You're talking of your choice to be schooled as if your set of choices were not written for you even before you were aware of your capacity to choose. Listen my friend, awareness makes all of the difference. if you're not conscious of what's happening to you, you will be wearing red glasses all your life and never understand why everything you're seeing is of a reddish color.

You were raised in a society that values education through conventional schooling. If you were born in one of the African villages where western education remains alien, I'm pretty sure you would not know what it is to CHOOSE to be judged by the world based on your College GPA. We may not be the product of our environment, but we're the most authentic byproduct of it.

It's only when we're aware of the environmental intrusion into our lives, we are armed to change our surrounding to our benefit. Otherwise, we will be just reading scripts already "MADE IN WHERE WE LIVE" and live the illusory life of being myopically self-determining.

You are not as free as you think unless you are AWARE of the limits of your freedom.

There're several ways of finding attention. The society we live in inflicts upon us which ways are noble and which ones are insane. Negritude pride and western morals blind us in ways that some of us take as natural. Bleaching and darkening one's skin is more than a right. It is a conscious effort to attract because that's exactly what attracts that same society -who makes you think bad of them.

I know the full value of knowledge and conventional western schooling. But that has not ripped off the other part of me that makes me FULLY human. Every coin has a reverse side. Every angle has another view. Every fence has another dimension. We must see both.

Again, I will not encourage to bleach nor advise to not bleach. But I will recommend our young men and women to do whatever it takes to be attractive at the same time that they're doing what it takes to enrich their inner qualities with knowledge and culture.

Not to sound immodest but just to prove a point, I had my PhD in my 20s, dispensed courses in colleges. At the same time, I am Tibob de Nazareth. I was Zoom's singer for 10 years and replaced Gazzman 2-3 years ago in D'Zine as the lead singer. I produced Alan Cave, Shadow Band and a lot of other artists. I had my first solo album out this summer -a success to date. I sing, play almost all instruments, and have my own record label with a five-star recording studio in the tri-state area. I've written more than 30 books in my 20s. Published a few of them in Canada, France and all around the world. I am a fervent believer in God and has a curch assembly that I attend regularly.

I am NOT an academicist nor a secularist nor a religious person. I am not just a writer, a professor, a musician, a producer, an engineer, a soccer player ... I am ME, the whole nine yards. I cohabitate with the mundane and am at ease with the spiritual. I fit whether I am in the company of idiots as well as intellectuals. And I'm still barely in my 30s (although I look 19 -lol). I try to keep the balance while enjoying all sides of life.

Our ability to fill our brains should not interfere with our capacity to fulfill our hearts.

And if bleaching or darkening the skin is what makes the non-brain part of us happy or marketable, it is nonsense to ask us to do differently? We are not adjusting DOWN to the White level, we're only adjusting to the fullness of human life.

First of all I wanna give a shout out to Kreyol bro for shouting me out!  Secondly I would like to say that I personally would say that bleaching one's skin, whether male or female is an individual choice.  However, I disagree with it 100%.  Kreyolbro, I've read many of your prior arguments and they were good, but I never thought you would say things like this.  Why must a Man or Woman feel inferior due to their skin color? I found your replies most troubling.  the fact that we are all made in God's image makes us special alone.  I find it sad that you, as an African American man feel that we should bleach our skin.  Topics like these are very personal and should be responded with special precaution.  I'm not trying to get on your case, but if anything you should encourage women to love themselves the way they are.  if you don't appreciate they way you were made, who will?  I think before any one decides to respond to this topic, should think before they write anything because your words are very strong.

stay positive

stephanie

I agree with you Stephanie. No one should encourage another individual to do or to not do one thing. I try to remain the most objective possible. So I would also love the readers to be as objective. Most of the time, the reader will try to draw a sketch of the personality of the person who posted something. That is wrong.

I may be in favor of bleaching and still don't recommend it or vice versa. I may be all whitened or have never used chemical soap on my face, it just doesn't matter. Let the message stand without his/her messenger. 

Stephanie, Tibob!!!

Read Kreyolbro's posts again and read between the lines. Everything isn't always as it seems. You're taking his posts literally when I'm sure he has a deeper message.

Negnwe, I sense that too. Kreyolbro is trying to sneak something lol.

Tijou, it always seems that you want to take my posts somewhere I really don't want them to go. I will refrain from even answering you much, because you always seem to misunderstand me.  All I have to say is if I didn't like being Haitian, I wouldn't have been on this site caring about issues that affect Haitians. Being an American national, I had a choice to be a full yankee, or embrace my cultural background. Guess what? I'm here!  That  is all I have to say about that.

Tibob, I read you man.  It seemed like you were justifying the usage of bleach cream that is all. You see, the thing is, I posted about the bleach cream topic in order to show what our people are doing to look good. If a dark skinned person indeed feels the need to bleach himself or herself, in order to get some kind of attention, then surely something is wrong. This is a world where everybody can be successful. It is not like black people can't be where white people are.  It won't help at all if we are trying to change our appearance in order to fit in, because at the end, we don't fit in anyway! Every race has their position and we all are important in this world.  Even though a person has the right to use the cream, I condemn its usage. I already know the reasons why many women want to use it. I didn't begin the post with any statements saying that people are not allowed to use bleach. If I acted as if it was not a problem in Haiti, what kind of progressive Haitian would I be?

Tibob, my posts are mostly what I feel we do wrong as Haitian people, and what we should do. If I say let's unite, we don't have to. If I say, let's be more respective of each other...we don't have to....but when you think about it bro, they sound like good ideas don't they?

Negnwe; I have to keep my eyes on you, you always seem to figure me out.

Chemin; brother you are letting your emotions get the best of you resulting in you being in a defensive mode and missing the message from other's posts.

Tibob; welcome to the site, looking forward to getting to know you.

Stephanie;  you make a good point. Some impressionable minds may miss the meaning behind my posts.

Amber;  nice to hear from you again.

We need to be honest with our present reality.  The current acceptable prototype for black beauty is not the pure sub-saharan black African type.  It is the Hamito/Nilotic (Ethiopian, Somalian, Tutsi), Sahelian (mostly black with generous amount of Arab or Berber blood), or Afro-American (mostly black but with various degree of white or other blood).

Our ancestors however belong to the West and Cental African "true negro" type. The question is with so much miscegenation, should there be only one black standard of beauty.  Is there a black African standard and a different Afro-American standard.  Should mulattoes have their own standard. The problem is that all blacks and part blacks seem to have accepted that one standard.  Then add in the true mulattoes who the white man has decided to classify as blacks.  In this case what chances does a dark skinned African featured person has.

The black is beautiful slogans of the sixties really meant black Americans are beautiful.  The high "good haired" Afros were preferred over the short "bad hair" afros and pure negroid features were still less desirable.  Flambert you mentionned Jamaica as a good example; have you seen the Miss jamaica winners since that country's independance?  I have yet to see a real black winner.  Interestingly enough the first black woman to make the semi-finalist rank in the Miss World beauty pageant was Miss Haiti 1967 ? (i cant remember the exact year.)   I tried to find a picture of her expecting a mulatto girl. To my surprise it was a Haitian looking dark skinned woman with a perm.  So you could say our country was ahead of the times in this regard.

The fact is we are a damaged people spiritually, intellectually, and yes physically.  The white man may have caused the original damage, but we are the ones perpetuating it.  We make our dark skinned or negro featured brothers and sisters feel ugly and less desirable.  I would even venture to say that these same kids raised in an all white environment would have a more positive attitude towards their pigmentation.  We are the problem, not white society and not other people's racism.  See how proud most of us feel when others say "gee you don't look Haitian (meaning African)" we act incensed but deep down inside we are saying "Thank God".  Black people the world around still talk about "good hair", "bad Hair", he/she is dark BUT good looking.

We all handle this damage differently; In my case I have developed this irresistable attraction to dark skin and a repulsion for light skin.  One of my nightmares is one where I have fathered a son with a grimelle, mulatresse or white and I am unable to love that child, unable to run my fingers through his curly hair without feeling guilt shame and repulsion.  That is a problem; all children should be loved.  Is my attraction to and love for dark skin a result of guilt or a patronizing need to protect and love the unloved.  I have to cure myself of this racism, unfortunately reason and rational thinking do not help.

Which bring us to my point.  Flambert don't you think these women know it is damaging to their skin. Don't you think most of them using it for lighting purposes already feel that shame.  It is something only they can work through, and it takes time.  You are not telling them anything new. It is from deep inside, you cant touch it.

kreyolbro@aol.com

Kreyolbro, even though we're not in church (and I know Stephanie will love that) or even though it may not mean much to you, I've got to give you an AMEN BRO! Wow! You are as sincere as true. I like that.

I always believe enlightment is not the fact to necessarily KNOW things, it's rather that of UNDERSTANDING what's going on. Keep it up Kreyolbro.

I just want to add one thing to your great post. I've come accross that all the times and when I read between the lines of every post, I can see the same misconception about what makes up a black person.

It's highly time that we let go of that traditional illusion that our ancestors are Africans and therefore we owe our appearance and everything else to Africa in gratitude for the past. For those of you who know the basics of Chemistry, when several elements are mixed to form a compound, the resulting composition becomes a NEW element with its unique properties.

For example, when we mix water and sugar, we obtain sugared water, a totally new element with its own characteristics, different from its constituents. Sugared water is neither water nor sugar. Of course some of its characteristics depend or come from its respective components.

My point is the following. Blacks, I'll use Haitians instead to better illustrate my approach, are a mixture of Africans, French, Spanish, Tainos, other Amerindians and Europeans, and -more recently- Americans, Chinese, Caucasians, Russians etc ... It was logical that Mackandal and Boukman in the late 1700s saw the black folks ot Saint-Domingue as 100% Africans.

But we can't ignore the impact of time and social evolution to keep that abherration going as if it is an unchangeable truth. Some of us are more European, more American, more White, more Caucasian than African in our very genetic and racial composition.

It's nonsense to pick an element of one's constituency and decide that the person must be just that for the sole sake of faithfulness to one portion of our past, disregarding all the other 'majority' components.

For a lot of blacks, being aware of the multiplicity of our racial texture is an act of betrayal, a move away from Africa. That's really absurd (I call it aggressive ignorance).

Hello! Let's evolve into what has been taking place. WE ARE WHAT WE BECOME, let's stop hanging to what we were as if time and social transformation have no effect on us. Social Darwinism advanced that an inferior community is one that fails to adapt to the new social reality. I am afraid our eyes are still in the back of our necks. Let's stop looking at us as what we once were. WE ARE WHAT WE HAVE BECOME!

We need to take into consideration all the adjustments that "being black" or "being Haitian" has evolved to mean through time. We are hurting ourselves ... we are killing ourselves. Our ancestors are not just the Africans, they are the Europeans too, the Chinese, the Amerindians, the Tainos in particular, the Spanish, the Americans ... the WHITE!

The Bible says: "my people perish by lack of knowledge". It is indeed true for blacks and Haitians.

Kreyolbro! That is what i've been thinking all along! This is why I am protesting against the idea of using bleach cream. 

We have accepted a standard of beauty which is extremely stupid. We are doing ourselves dirty.  If we are to care about Haiti, then we must care about what is in the minds of our people. We must remove ourselves from this mental slavery. 

I agree with what you have said wholeheartedly bro. 

Tibob, we are a mixture of different people, but the base of our culture remains to be an Africanized french culture.  We can sprinkle some syrian, some panyol and a few others, but we have to remember that the strongest blood in us, generally, is the African blood.  That is how we are going to be seen in this world, and that is how we should accept it, of course without all the negative stereotypes that comes with being an African descendent.  I've read somewhere that the colony of St. Domingue(present day Haiti) was seventy percent African born right before the revolution.  If this holds to be true, that means that Haiti has a stronger African base.  Sure we are not "pure" Africans, but as you implied, who is pure? 

The fact remains that we need to realize that Haiti stands for something in this world. Haiti stands for the freedom of all black people who were enslaved and/or colonized. If we are to be examples to other black nations, we can not be anti-dark skin.