Quote: Originally posted by NegNwe on November-01-2003

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Tout Ayisyen,

As usual, Kreyolbro is nit-picking and refuses to be swayed. Let him do what he wants. But I will take this opportunity to ask every single Haitian reading this to stand up and be noticed. Talk to your American friends and colleagues at work about Haiti, bring up a missing Haitian flag to any organization (store group, etc) guilty of the offense. It doesn matter if it's a Caribbean group, European group, or whatever, if you see ignorance  on the part of Haiti speak up.

I'm one of those many Haitians in New York who has the Haitian flag hanging under his rear-view mirror. I remember hearing one young kid saying to another, "that's the Haitian Flag." In my mind I was like "Good! That's one more person who learned to recognize the Haitian flag." We've been invisible and never counted for too long and, collectively. we can put an end to that.

Epi dats it!

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Yo I got my boxing gloves in my car...over the summer my head was wrapped very day at work with my flag...my flag is everywhere, my towel draps my wall...Neg, I use to live in Brooklyn and now in Jersey, I know what you are talking about...and Kreyol just doesn't see how important it is to exchange cultures with other West Indians...it's very important...there are organizations trying to make the Caribbean one like Europe, if we get left out of that, we are done...just like how we got left out of the Latin American organization and that really hurt us...he has no idea what he is saying...sounds to me like he's the type to kiss white bouda and tell people like him to beat it...that's exactly what he is sounding like...dont mean to disrespect but seriously, read what the man is saying...he said forget all those like us, we are out to please the Europeans and Asians...how do you think that's going to happen when everywhere they go to look for a place to spend their next buck Haiti is missing...Isolation is one of the reasons for our demise right now...our first step is to connect with those like us, they are greater assets then anyone else...once you connect with them, they will start including you in everything and we'll attract outsiders together...

Example The West Indian American day parade vs. the Haitian flag day...both in Brooklyn, but as a Haitian vendor of Voodoo art which would you be more profitable in?...of course the West Indian American parade because with so many different countries there from the Caribbean, these uptown manhattan yuppies come and that's when they say "Oh wow Haitian art is so beautiful" and take out their wallets...see the mix of all the countries is what brought them there, they didn't come for Haiti, they probably only know Bermuda and Bahamas and Jamaica, but while they are there they see how beautiful Haitian people can be when they are not pushing each other of course, but they see what we have to offer, then before you know it, mother says to dad, "honey maybe we should look into going to haiti next year, I know we heard bad things, but maybe it will be a great experience we've been everwhere else and I'm tired of Jamaica every year"...

It's important we stop this isolation...it's further aiding us in staying on the bottom...

Ape man,

EXACTLY!

one last testimony and I am done with this subject...this is a true story...my old job I had a supervisor who was Italian...he was cool with us Haitians cause there was a couple of us in there and we always spoke in creole so in the office everyone respected and love the Haitians and saw up close that we were totally different from what the media perceived us as...we were well manored, always the best dressed and were never ashamed of our heritage...so that brought alot of respect there...the Haitian woman that worked there as a DBA was so impressive...her name was Regine and every one of those white boys and guys wanted a peice of her, I still have a crush...in the Technology world it's hard to find beautiful women this woman was a dime by far and the way she dressed...wow...

Anyway this Italian guy was going to D.R. with his wife for vacation...I was joking with him telling him if he's not nice to me all I have to do is make a phone call and have some Haitians waiting to get him at the airport and he asked me why did I say that was it because there was a lot of Haitians in DR...I told him Haiti and DR were connected, he was shocked...he never realized Haiti was so close to the U.S.  now this is his first time in the Caribbean, I am sure he did research to find out where he was going exactly...during his research you think he'd bump into a site that spoke of the Caribbean and mentioned Haiti...I guess not...

Since now he knew he was going near Haiti, he made it a point to come back and brag in the office how he brought some Haitian paintings from the street vendors that hackled him...he said they tried ripping him off trying to charge way too much and their were many of them, but other then that nothing deragotory came out his mouth...he braggeda bout the paintings he brought and said that even though they were from nameless street vendors they were quite impressive...this is what happens when people are aware of where they are going...

Kreyolbro, whites who take cruises often times dont realize they have been to Haiti...they are told that Labadie is in Hispaniola...now they will say they went to an Island called Hispaniola and had fun at this place called Labadie not knowing they were actually in a Haiti and could say the experience they got was not as bad as the media makes it...they will still be blind to the fact and come back here still thinking low of Haitians and never spending a dollar in a Haitian business...now if the brochure said Haiti along with the rest of the Caribbean countries on it, some of these people would come back with a different state of mind and opinion about us and they would show this here by going to our festivities and wanting to know more about us and end up spending more on our culture...since it's about money, I wanted to give you that perspective...

That's why I love it when Boukman Experyans performs along with rockers groups in Central Park...or when I go to SOBs and the people just go to see some Martinique band or Guadeloupe band and find themselves intrigued by the Haitian band that opens the show...we have to be included...we can win everyone by just word of mouth, we need help from our fellow West Indians...when the West Indies is one it wont matter to people where they go and spend their money, but if the West Indies become one not including Haiti, then we are in big trouble...

now that I am done, I will wait for someone to open a new thread talking about Haitians that go get married in the Bahamas, this year alone I know 4 weddings that happened in the Bahamas...that's about an average 30 grand a wedding...yet I know someone that lives in England that had his wedding to his English wife in Haiti and said it was the best thing he ever did...I seen the pictures and I was impressed...all these people came from England never knowing anything about Haiti and their jaws dropped when they saw the beauty of Kenscoff, they were very impressed at the treatment they received in Haiti and all loved it...why are Haitians spending so much money in other places for sacred ceremonies like weddings when they can just do it at home?? this is a real shame....please someone post that, I dont want to start it...

I think negnwe and apeman's views demonstrate that state of mind of New York/New jersey haitians. They have been caribbeanized, they are not used to seing Haitians stand alone. kreyolbro we need more self assured ethnocentric haitians like you to push our people and country to live up to their full potentials.

Miami Babe.... 

Quote: Originally posted by Guest on November-02-2003

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I think negnwe and apeman's views demonstrate that state of mind of New York/New jersey haitians. They have been caribbeanized, they are not used to seing Haitians stand alone. kreyolbro we need more self assured ethnocentric haitians like you to push our people and country to live up to their full potentials.

Miami Babe.... 

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Maybe it's a matter of where you are living then...you may see us as not being true to our heritage but the ugly truth is, in NY/NJ for any businesses to truly prosper they have to render services to everybody not just their own...this is the reason many of our businesses dont make it...you cant do anything here and only depend on your own to make it...my uncles own Two medical facilities one in Queens and the next one in Long Island, they have to make sure when they put out their adds they tell the people they speak spanish as well, they have to hire bilangual receptionist and themselves learn moderate spanish to survive otherwise they will be eaten by the competition who service the entire Caribbean community...

Look at us and say we are Caribbeanized, but you live in a community with a tight nitch of Haitians, I frequent South Florida and visit Haitian businesses that make profits off of more then the Haitian customers in Miami, they seem to get the interest of more then Haitians for the same reason I am talking about, they open themselves up to America, not just to Haitians...what you guys are saying is very old, this is a new age...you might as well tell me you will never invest your money in Haitian rappers because rap was not created in haiti or you will never support a Haitian band that plays salsa or reggae...maybe you need to open up a little bit and see that mixing cultures is powerful and beautiful...my sister married a Guyanese man and had two kids by him, those kids will have 3 cultures to learn and be proud of, their minds will be open as will the new generation, those of us who open our doors to the multicultured Caribbean will prosper as we all become one, those with the stubborn Haitian only unless your white attitude will stay in the dark and just get angry as they see the world changing around them

I can see where Kreyolbro is coming from with his comment about it not matter if the Haitian flag isn't on a Carribean website. I think that the most important thing is to get people to respect you and the way you do that is to work on the inside to elevate yourself and your group.  Once you have elevated yourself to a position of dignity, then people will feel compelled to give you credit for your work.  It is smarter to silently work for self/group improvment than to waste energy whinning about being excluded from a website.  I, for one, would never notice the Haitian absence from those websites because I don't have time to visit them and they are very low on my list of relevant things.  How can I complain about my flag not being on some website when thousands are dying of hunger in Haiti; when the Haitian urban/ghetto population has become so americanized from watching American films that a man can beat his wife to death and dump her in ravine (bwat chen)?  Frankly, I got better things to do.  I used to be a major fan of kanaval/Labor Day, but now I don't even go anymore because it has become so insignificant next to the quandary that Haiti is now in.  I am too busy trying to make money so I can open a big orphanage in Haiti where street kids can finally see their existence justified.  So I am with Kreyolbro one 100%.   We need to stop worrying about our clothes being stained with blood while the noose around our neck is getting tighter and tighter.

Nzinga33

The argument above from Miami Babe makes so little sense, that I wouldn't be surprised if it were actually posted by Kreyolbro in an efort to show that people are agreeing with him.

How the heck can you say we're not used to seeing Haitians stand alone? Wer'e always standing alone. We've been more alone than any other country I can think of...and yet we manage to survive. That right there showse xcpetionall strength and character.

The fact remains that small countries make money by exporting and you can't do that if peopled don't know who you are.

I am lost...people come and say they agree with Kreyolbro when Kreyol's argument is that we need white money and forget everyone who is in similar situations as we are...

How can you say you agree with Kreyol when your argument is that we just need to silently work alone on fixing our country...silence would mean we dont need anyone knowing who we are...how can we ever make money from Tourism, make money from Exports if noone knows who we are and what we have?...you really think our country can go another 100 years without tourism or exports? are you serious?...I think sometimes pride can cloud judgement and make your delirious...it's good to have pride but you have to really know when to look outside yourself...in September 01 America learned a real lesson on too much pride and being ignorant to what is happening outside the world...let's not let the comfort of living here and pride for our country fog up our judgement, while we try to stay to ourselves and fix our country, the world is moving 1000 miles an hour and we are just falling further and further behind...even this great America makes allianses with countries that most would think are beneath it...it's the key to survival and always surviving, allianses...globerization alone can burry us if we dont learn how to be part of a group...many countries in the South American and Caribbean regions are facing the horrible fate of getting left behind, that's why they are talking about uniting, let's not let another boat pass us by and we dont jump on it and learn to work with others...it could be devastating

Please I am not trying to tell you how to think, but really eveluate what you are saying and the effect it can have on our country not just on you and your pride...think about the next 1000 of our brothers and sisters that will embark on a trip on a bannana boat and think of who's opinnion would better benefit them...

you are all over the map apeman, no-one is talking about business marketing.  So your family is messed-up with other groups, good for them..some of us don't care for that.  Yes we will smile in their faces, sell things to them and market to them for business sake but we don't have to accept their culture or mix with them.  jews and other successfull groups are good at that.  thanks for the family info, now we see where you comming from.

Miami Babe

Quote: Originally posted by Guest on November-02-2003

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you are all over the map apeman, no-one is talking about business marketing.  So your family is messed-up with other groups, good for them..some of us don't care for that.  Yes we will smile in their faces, sell things to them and market to them for business sake but we don't have to accept their culture or mix with them.  jews and other successfull groups are good at that.  thanks for the family info, now we see where you comming from.

Miami Babe

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