“They joined hands in 1914 with the marines to humiliate us, they just did it again in 2004.”

Tibobdenazareth completely forgot about 1994! No! He didn't forget. He just refused to mention 1994 because it was when the "marines" put Aristide in Air Force II and flew him back to the land of Haiti. Tibobdenazareth didn't feel humiliated at all when the marines were stepping on Haitian soldiers' heads. Let me see if Tibobdenazareth can stop being fake and explain why he feels the humiliation of 1914 ( I think he meant 1915) and 2004, but not the one of 1994.

“From Dessalines to Cedras, they would rather burn the country to ashes or commit suicide rather than signing anything protecting lives while removing them from office. You're making him a historic hero when you think you're destroying him. KOTE SA OU PA KA WE A?”

Not true! Not true at all Tibobdenazareth. You are just lying to people on this website, and I am surprised nobody has the courage to unmask you. You behave like you are the only one on this website who can think, when in fact you are misleading some people.

When Paul Magloire had to leave the National Palace, he didn't "burn the country to ashes" nor did he commit suicide. He tried to remain the commander in chief of the army, but it didn't work. It could not work! He had to leave Haiti on December 13, 1956.

When Jean-Claude Duvalier had to leave the country, he didn't "burn the country to ashes" nor did he commit suicide. He pre-recorded a message to the Haitian people and left the country at 3:47 AM on February 7, 1986. His followers got burn alive by those who took power in 1991.

After Henry Namphy picked Leslie Manigat as president, Namphy just returned to his office. He didn't "burn the country to ashes", nor did he commit suicide. Manigat was a traitor because he put Namphy, his benefactor, in house jail. Then the army reacted and kicked Manigat out and sent him to the Dominican Republic.

When in March 1989, Prosper Avril was forced to leave the National Palace, he put Hérard Abraham in charge and return to his house in Juvenat. " I've decided to go home because I don't want an occupation of the country" said Prosper Avril. He didn't "burn the country to ashes" nor did he "commit suicide". When the people said that Avril had to leave the country, he left.

When Hérard Abraham had to hand the power over, he didn't "burn the country to ashes" nor did he commit suicide. He said to Ertha Pascale Trouillot:" Madame la présidente, l'Armée est à vos ordres."

When Raoul Cédras had to leave Haiti, he made a speech on the stairs on the "Grand Quartier Général des Forces Armées d'Haiti", and left the army under the command of Jean-Claude Duperval. Cédras didn't "burn the country to ashes" nor did he commit suicide. People were so happy to hear Cédras mention the name of Charlemagne Péralte. Aristide could not do that anymore!

"KOTE SA OU PA KA WE A?" KOTE SA OU PA VLE WE A TIBOBDENAZARETH?

You asked people to read books of history, but I am wondering if you really read yours Tibobdenazareth. Get your facts straight and stop misleading people.

Ruhevi,

I don't know the origin of this discussion but I think the history stand on its own. However I think you need to make a little correction here, I don't anyone of those past politician have ever giving the order to kill or destroy the country.

Moreover, do not forget that Henry L. gave the power to Lesly M. on the blood of 3,000 people that was killed for having exercise they right as citizen of Haiti. Most of them were shot dead with a ballot on their hand. So, None of these guys are heroes or good in my eyes. Haitian leaders have yet to work for a better future and we know that.

Now, as far as 1994 goes, you  must understand that the so call Force army D'haiti had done enough. The time for them to stop killing people unjustly had to occur. Moreover, I don't feel that I was been humiliated at the time because those guys were not a proper military in my view. I thought that they were bunch of tugs that were running a country. In addition, keep in mind that they were an army that was formed by a foreign government and design to protect foreign interest in Haiti. This is not a military that was generated by the Haitian people, and it is clear that even today they can never be in the interest of the people after years of training to destroy all those who oppose foreign interest.

Paul E. Magloire was no better, he killed many in the interest of holding power and I don't think I need to go into the Duvalier's.

Now, I heard so many Haitian claiming that Aristid destroy the military. Well, I find such claim to be politicaly unfair because when most Haitian know the travesty that the army committed. They started to destroyed themselves long before Aristide come a lone. This is an army that fought a war among themselves in 1989, generated several different "cous-de-ta " among themselves. General and general could not have found a common ground to govern the country but yet we are ready to jump and said that Aristide destroye the army.

Now, was Aristide right on downsizing the army to smallest number possible; I will said absolutely because when you are driving to fast you need to put on the break on sharp curves other wise you destroy your ownself. To me that is what he did. However, Aristide was wrong on forming the chemere because that is the very same thing that he fought againts. The Chemere is not different than that tug of military that was ruling Haiti for years.

Finally, I would like everyone to understand that in life there is right and wrong and you can find yourself on either side as human. However, being right or wrong has nothing to do with your national pride or what class that you belong in. It is simply a matter of principle what is right and what is wrong. Killing Inocent people is not right, stealing from the very same people that you dispise is not right. L. Manigat is one of the people that I despise the most in the Haitian political arena, and my reasons are simple.

He agree to take power on the blood of the people, and base on Haitian rummors it seem as if he was one of the grand architect of the "tonton macoute" institution in Haiti. Now as we know this man been living in Veneuzela where rummor has it that he had construct educational institution there. Again if these rummors are facts, I will let you all think about that and you a little before supporting any of those guys who did built a future for you and I in Haiti when they had the chance too.

correction:

Who did not built a future for you or me.

mpat,

          The quote in red is from tibobdenazareth, and the comments in black are from me, ruhevi. What correction should I make? Your very first paragraph supports my point!

"Moreover, do not forget that Henry L. gave the power to Lesly M. on the blood of 3,000 people that was killed for having exercise they right as citizen of Haiti. Most of them were shot dead with a ballot on their hand. So, None of these guys are heroes or good in my eyes. Haitian leaders have yet to work for a better future and we know that."

When did 3000 people get killed? When? Are you talking about November 29, 1987 when the Tonton Macoutes opened fired on the voters at Ruelle Vaillant? Eleven (11) people got killed. I am not justifying the killings because they were only eleven (11). Not even one person should have been killed! But we need to get the facts straight. 3000 is a very gross exageration!

I don't think any of these guys is a hero. Not at all! They are just a bunch of bastards. I just had to give a few examples to prove that the following quote is terribly wrong and biased:

“From Dessalines to Cedras, they would rather burn the country to ashes or commit suicide rather than signing anything protecting lives while removing them from office. You're making him a historic hero when you think you're destroying him. KOTE SA OU PA KA WE A?”

Yes you are right about the 11 people, but they were more killing outside of Port-au-prince that was conducted in the same fashion. The source of that number came from Haitian Red-cross and it was boardcast that year in the Haitian media and I can recall hearing it in an Haitian Radio station in Boston. You are right, I don't have a concrete evidence to support that number but I also want you to know that most Haitian think that Port-au-prince is the only part of Haiti. In fact it is not, there was a lot of people who got killed in the major cities also on that day. If I had the time, I would research it to come up with a better acurate number but if there is anyone here with that information please feel free to share a light on it.

However, I don't want to spent the time on the number because I think you stated best that not one single person should have die that day.

“Astronomers call the area where several planets "share" the sun, the MILKY way.” 

I am still trying to find the astronomers who gave this definition of the Milky Way! I would like Tibobdenazareth to tell us from what book he read this statement if he didn’t make it up  himself in order to fool us and make us believe he is the greatest thinker and the most prolific researcher in the whole world. Tibobdenazareth wants to be impressive, but he talks of subjects that he doesn’t know too much about. Tibobdenazareth just keeps making false and inaccurate statements. I know a lot of people on this forum know what the Milky Way is. I am surprised nobody said anything!  

“Pou tout moun ki kwè Demokrasi ka makonnen ak koudeta, m ap di ke men yo benyen nan san sa k ap rive peyi m nan jodi a.”

                                                                            Tibobdenazareth

Se vre demokrasi paka makonnen ak koudeta, e li pap janm makonnen ak koudeta. Men lè yon nèg kontwole touletwa pouvwa yo nan pyi-a, li fè lapolis tounen timoun domestik ki rete lakay li, li mete zam ak dwòg nan men timoun dizan pou yo touye moun pou li, li kinbe nan prizon moun lajistis bay dwa pou mete an libète, li fè peyi-a tounen yon mache dwòg, li vle touye tout moun ki pa kanpe sou menm bit ak li, la-a monchè pa gen anken intèlektièl kap fèm konpwan sa-a se definisyon demokrasi. Lè yon nèg rive nan Palè Nasyonal ak yon men devan yon men deyè epi apre dizan li miltimilionè, pa gen intèlektyel ki ka fèm konpwan sa-a se demokrasi. Lè yon nèg twompe ti pèp la pou fèl antre na koperativ epi li vòlè lajan ti machan, ti atizan, ti malere ouvrye...A! Mon chè!

Epi poukisa mwen pa janm tande anyien de papye Aristid te siyen anvan li te pati-a? Se pat yon demisyon? Si Aristid te ak le pèp, se poul te mouri ak le pèp. Aristid se youn gwo boujwa ki tap kraponnen ti pèp la.  

Lè yon nèg fè le pèp konpwan ke li pito echwe ak li tan poul reisi poukont li, epi lap viv nan yon chato Taba ak 300000 dola ameriken li blye ki pouri nan yon besment, lepèp li menm nan labou Lasalin, Site Soley, Breya ap manje kaka!...Se nan elikoptè wi Aristid te konn al nan palè, ki jan ou rele sa? Se sa ou rele demokrasi a Tibobdenazareth? Sanwont! Se pou fout di ki kote Aristide jwen bann milion dola lap naje nan yo a jodi a.

“And the fable that he(Jean-Bertrand Aristide)was a tyrant is all BS, no tyrant in any history leaves his presidency; they either kill everybody or commit suicide. Go do yourselves a favor and read a few history books. Don't just use words for the sake of showing your hatred. No one should buy ignorance of the truth.”

Not true! Not true at all Tibobdenazareth. You are just lying to people on this website, and I am surprised nobody has the courage to unmask you. You behave like you are the only one on this website who can think, when in fact you are misleading some people by making false and inaccurate statements.

Here is a list of just a few dictators and tyrants who leave the National Palace wihout killing everybody and without commiting suicide:  

When Paul Magloire had to leave the National Palace, he didn't "kill everybody" nor did he "commit suicide". He tried to remain the commander in chief of the army, but it didn't work. It could not work! He had to leave Haiti on December 13, 1956.

When Jean-Claude Duvalier had to leave the country, he didn't "kill everybody" nor did he "commit suicide". He pre-recorded a message to the Haitian people and left the country at 3:47 AM on February 7, 1986. His followers got burn alive by those who took power in 1991.

After Henry Namphy picked Leslie Manigat as president, Namphy just returned to his office. He didn't "kill everybody", nor did he "commit suicide". Manigat was a traitor because he put Namphy, his benefactor, in house jail. Then the army reacted and kicked Manigat out and sent him to the Dominican Republic.

When in March 1989, Prosper Avril was forced to leave the National Palace, he put Hérard Abraham in charge and return to his house in Juvenat. " I've decided to go home because I don't want an occupation of the country" said Prosper Avril. He didn't "kill everybody" nor did he "commit suicide". When the people said that Avril had to leave the country, he left. 

When Raoul Cédras had to leave Haiti, he made a speech on the stairs on the "Grand Quartier Général des Forces Armées d'Haiti", and left the army under the command of Jean-Claude Duperval. Cédras didn't "kill everybody" nor did he "commit suicide". People were so happy to hear Cédras mention the name of Charlemagne Péralte. Aristide could not do that anymore!

"KOTE SA OU PA KA WE A?" KOTE SA OU PA VLE WE A TIBOBDENAZARETH?

You asked people to read history books, but I am wondering if you really read yours Tibobdenazareth. Get your facts straight and stop misleading people.