The worst is when our own men condemn us for our color.  I remember when Top Vice first started to appear in NY (years ago); I went with a friend (female)and some aquaintances (males).  When we arrived, the place was packed with mostly Grimelles and Grimeaux (excuse the spelling).  A few ladies passed by (grimelles with long hair) and one of the guys said:  " Oh! here are the REAL  women.  Two of the other guys mumbled some sort of agreement.  I don't have to tell you that my friend and are are just   black. 

We were both shocked;  that night we came to see this person for who he truly was.

Unfortunately, he speaks for too many of our Haitian "brothers"

I know a few guys who sleep freely and pretend to be in relationships with black Haitian women, but will only committ to grimelles or metisses (again, spelling?)...even if their characters leave alot to be desired. 

Is it no wonder our women are looking for self esteem in a jar?

I am red and I use creams to bleach blemishes cause I ain't tryna look like no scarfaced chick.  Not to mention is it our faults our parents used to put us on "a-je-nou"?  Please, that's why island females have discolored knees so if we want to use a cream to better our skin complexion then so be it- its all apart of the price we pay for trying to look good for our ungrateful men!

-Khrissi17

Guest- Is it no wonder our women are looking for self esteem in a jar?

                                                        Sad.

             ~~~Patati Patata

I love it  "SELF ESTEEM IN A JAR"...great marketing line

   regular musk smell for the gentlemen....different perfume smells for the ladies.  We can have the Williams sisters do commercials,  Janet Jackson with before and after pictures (remember her from Good Times) to advertize our H&N (hair and nose) department.

Flambert once you have graduated, please consider joining us in our research and safety department.

This is so exciting...hummmm just think in a few years, no more excuses for darkness....or kinky hair..  (Poor Wycleff, no child should have to go through that)   And that mother Africa market...oh God  I dreamt of $$$$ bills last night......hummm I have to run but stay posted for the latest developments.

kreyolbro@aol.com

Flambert,

What being born in Haiti have to do with anything?  I was born in Haiti i never had to bleach my skin, and my mentality is  not destructive either.  My parents didn't raised me in a way to feel inferior yo anyone else.  The color of our skin was never a subject in our household until now.  I find a lot of American born people with a lot of destructive mentality, but still i wouldn't blame it on America.  I don't think Haiti have anything to do with it.  It's really what your parents instill in you.  Blame Haiti for everything else but this one, it has nothing to do with it...  

Flambert, kreyolbro is one crazy funny dude, but let's not overlook the ironic surface of his ideas ... he is one hell of a thinker too. The problem is that we tend to defend our position until we don't make sense. It doesn't matter how well structured and concise our conception of reality is, the truth remains that reality doesn't change no matter how we sketch our own perception of it.

I think Flambert -like many- hopes to base the black race social values based on traditional and archaic heritage. This is pure emotionalism. Rationalism demands something totally different. Perhaps higher than just the defense of self-contentment.

Kreyolbro is right. The world is capitalistic in FUNCTION. Reality is not what makes sense to our philosophical neuron cells; it's rather what is necessary to be useful and to function successfully in the streets. Life is not in rhetorics and faithful adhesion to a system of beliefs; it's indeed what we encounter in the streets.

Without expanding to the political aspect of things, communism fell not because the Bolshevic revolution and Russia did not do a good job, but because they were inflicting on the human mind a concept that the very nature of our humanhood does not support.

Human beings are capitalistic in nature. Period. People change or retain their skin colors not because they're not proud of who they are. Self-esteem has nothing to do with skin look; whether the latter is altered or not. The motive is all capitalistic and commercial.

We are all in the business of marketing ourselves. And in the process, it's very logical to align ourselves with what the market wants. It's painful to see how we sometimes decry a person's attempt to function favorably in a society without taking the time to go deeper than the periphery; that is the true motive of his/her action.

Whatever a black woman or man does with her/his skin complexion is but a mere reaction to the economic sphere in which she/he is living in. Flambert, you are in school not because you were born with the NATURAL penchant to complete your college studies. It's simply because that's the way you have GROWN to learn how to be economically productive and useful in this modern world, given your lack of options to be capitalistically successful without the pains of conventional schooling. All you are doing is ADJUSTING your system of values to that of the society you're living in. You are being CORRECTED to be marketable in order to better SELL yourself.

By the same token, let's not be hypocritical about the same thing we do in other fields just because we fall short to extend our very actions in other areas. Young men and women, when it comes to social interactions, are looking for ways to be ATTRACTIVE. When old age strikes, wisdom will be the new 'consolator'. But as far as youth is concern, nothing matters to the young age more than to be à la mode.

It's not that our black women and men are looking to be more 'beautiful' by bleaching their skins. It's even less that they don't have self-esteem which they seem to be looking for in a jar (sorry kreyolbro, your advertising motto will not sell).

Neither are they rejecting their pride or negate their original skin identity. Flambert, they're doing just like you: MAKING THEMSELVES MARKETABLE FOR THIS CAPITALISTIC WORLD. You are looking for money and social respect. You were INSTRUCTED to look for these things in classrooms.  But they are looking for attention, maybe love. Society has TAUGHT them to look for these things based on their physical look.

The bleaching or darkening of skin has nothing to do with beauty itself. It's only a mere conscious reaction to society's PERCEPTION of beauty. The fact that a black person lightens his/her skin doesn't tell that person's beauty story. Beauty is composed of 2 distinct parts: ATTRACTION and RETENTION.

When selling a product, the first thing to do is to be able to convey a convincing message for people to be ATTRACTED to that product so they develop the desire or appetite to buy it. This is done via commercial media (paper, video, audio). THAT'S ATTRACTION. Once the product is purchased, only the actual qualities of the product will make a client out of the buyer.  THAT'S RETENTION.

Allegorically, we NEED to "LOOK" marketable on the physical forefront to attract enough buyers of our "outside beauty". THAT'S ATTRACTION. Once we find somebody that pleases our taste, the inner beauty (education, good qualities, manners, economic resources, social status etc...) of that person makes us STAY with that person. THAT'S RETENTION.

So nobody is trying to be beautiful by altering our doses of melanin. They're only trying to be ATTRACTIVE. I'm pretty sure those same men and women adjusting their skins to the prevailing social taste are rich in good inner qualities. They bet on the physical look to attract and rely on the internal qualities to retain.

In parallel, if the black race were in economic and social command, I bet you would see millions of white-looking humans tanning and darkening their skins to also be marketable. That wouldn't mean that the white race wouldn't be proud of their skin color. That would only be the proof that some of them are concious enough to align their personal system of values to societal standards in order to benefit from the ruling perception of attraction and happiness.

This is not philosophy. THIS IS REALITY.

I will never advice to bleach or not to bleach. But I will recommend to do whatever it takes to be marketable; both in attraction and retention.

This is not philosophy. THIS IS REALITY.

First and foremost, I would like to make my point clear about Haiti.   I don't care about if you were born or not born in Haiti, we all know that Haitian society is to a greater degree like the society of St Domingue. You have the mulatto elite, you have the field blacks, and you have the blancs that people kiss up to. Things have not changed much at all!  Sure, in America they have this. However, in America it is spoken about many many times and because of this, more people can change.  In Haiti, many things are swept under the rug. We tend to call our culture a "conservative" culture. In my eye, we are just afraid to accost our problems.  Tijou, let's not play the I was born in Haiti so it is ok game. The reality is, it is a huge problem in Haiti because it is one of the main problems in Haiti. America, with its size, diversity and economy will not  be affected so much by this dilemma.  The worse thing is that Haiti is a black country. Also, let us not forget that we are not the only bleachers.

Tibob, there is a huge difference between doing what is temporarily beneficial, and doing what is best for a long period of time.  A woman bleaches herself (not for discoloration) but to sell herself is marketing herself for what? If one wants to find sex, then it is normal to change yourself for a short "fok".  However, when you are looking for love, it is commonsense that you should not change yourself drastically.  Things like attitude, mannerisms, posture, sure! To apply chemicals to your skin which is there to protect your body is just plain stupid! We are humans and our minds is what makes us different from animals.  If we are to believe that we will survive better by certain harmful means that we are doomed.

Let us consider the economic standing of Whites in the world.  The reason they have such wealth is because of the way they have cooperated with each other.  All races have the same brain power potential, but it is how we use it that determines if we are going to live well or live poorly.  Let's face it, black people do not treat each other well. We didn't do it in the past, and we are not doing it now! That is why the other races are doing better than we are. Now, if we are to bow down to their standards of beauty, would we truly be marketing ourselves for a profit? What profit is that? Self abhoration never helped anybody! When I attend college, I am not hurting myself. I am not drastically changing myself for anybody but myself. I choose to go to college because acquiring knowledge is what being human is all about! Getting breast implants, nose jobs, and bleaching ourselves is not aiding our progression!  If this is the type of marketing that black people want to do, then we are going to go out of business.

In order to reach the economic status of the other races, we must not change our appearances but our minds.  Since the bleach only works skin deep, using it will not make any difference.  If we are to accept something just because people have the right to do it, then we might as well prepare for armageddon.  Not everything that people have the right to do should be done.

Wyclef was made fun of because he was dark. Did he bleach?

Wyclef was made fun of because of his accent. Did he stop speaking?

Wyclef is known internationally now, where are those people who made fun of him now?

As you can see, Wyclef marketted his talent which is not hurting him at all but helping him grow stronger.

In order for Haiti to become a successful country, must it prostitute the images of people who do not really live there? To buy a konpa CD, must their be a grimelle on it when the majority of Haitian women are dark skinned? Who are we fooling? 

Hummm, I have a tube or two of Self tanner! Granted I was trying to cover the spinder veins that creap out from having kids... But it was a vanity thing! All six of my Haitian sisters are very dark and I can't say I would perfer them lighter skinned.. They are truly beatiful people. Inner beauty and self confidence are things that have to be cultivated and nurtured.